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Tue, 8 Jun 04

Comments and questions regarding our UK Sex Work Law section

If you have any, we'd like to hear them!
We do know that this is one of the most popular sections of the site (there were over 500 downloads of the Escorts and the Law leaflet last month, for example...)
Please note that any responses, while believed to be accurate, are not legal Advice - if you want that, you need to talk to a solicitor or other suitably qualified person.

Replies: 298 comments

when is the english legal system going to realise that not all women are telling the truth when it comes to being raped. there is a serious need for the law to be changed that when it is a clear cut case that the alleged victim is lying they have no criminal reponsibility for their actions. it is too easy for a woman to cry wolf as there are no repercussions for her.

Posted by sarah carr on 16 Jun 04

False complaints of rape
Sarah, it's not true to say that there are no consequences for making a false complaint of rape.
For example, the woman who falsely accused Neil Hamilton of rape was sentenced to three years for perverting the course of justice:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2987262.stm

Posted by SW5 on 17 Jun 04

I just think the whole thing should be de-criminlised. Remove ordinry sex workers from the socil criminl identifction & the rel criminls stnd out.
Sex workers like myself should hve the right to work with others, for obvious security resons. To hve properly run brothels would too give those who choose this type of work their security& sfety.
Street workers re still trgeted & stnd to still be in dngerous situtions.
Regrds pimping & those who stnd to gin, wht is the definition of `control`?This seems to be uncler.Sorry re:spelling, keybord needs replcing.

Posted by Lynne on 24 Aug 04

Control
Until there have been some cases under the new law, no-one can be entirely sure what 'control' means. The examples given to MPs were telling someone how much to charge or telling an escort where to go to... ie what escort agencies do.

Posted by SW5 on 02 Sep 04

Sarah Carr what ARE you talking about? Don't you realise how few rape crimes actually get to court? Don't you realise how much the odds are stacked against the victim? Look up the words "adversarial justice" and "beyond reasonable doubt" Seems university has taught you nothing girl

Posted by kelly on 05 Sep 04

what happens it a client pays you by Cheque and it bounces?????

Posted by Tom Smith on 29 Sep 04

Bouncing & cancelled cheques
In short, they're stuffed if you chose to pursue them for the money.
You can get more advice from a Citizens Advice Bureau, a law centre or a solicitor, but writing a cheque is a serious act and there are very few defences to 'stopping' a cheque (telling the bank not to honour it) or writing a cheque when there are insufficient funds in the account to pay it (so the bank 'bounces' it, as in this case).
That the cheque was payment for sexual services is irrelevant - they can be made to pay purely on the basis that they paid you with a cheque that was stopped or bounced. (It may mean that they are less likely to put up a fight as if it did get to court, everyone would know they're a punter.)
This happened to one of our clients a few months ago, and as a result of their action we were delighted to learn that there is someone who will find it rather harder to get credit in the future.
Having said that, the hassles involved in chasing them for the money are a reason why many sex workers only accept cash in advance.

Posted by SW5 on 29 Sep 04

Response to The development of a coordinated strategy on prostitution
By a male escort.
As prostitution is the oldest profession, be it immoral or indecent in many eyes. Prostitution provides a relief to people who have a sexual need and thus reduces sexual crimes if prostitution were more acceptable and accessible you would not have as many horrible crimes as we can see in today’s news.
Open and inhibited sex work works in the Netherlands and other places so why can it not work here to. There are many aspects that people would worry about but having a more open attitude towards sex work would dramatically cut those problems such as drug abuse sex abuse alcohol addiction and would in turn cut out trafficking and illegal activities that surround prostitution in today’s society.
The report states costs to the tax paying public weather the government dose nothing to the legislation or dose something if the industry is permitted to continue the way it is now nothing will change for the better and the exploiters would continue to profit from a free to rule as they see fit anything goes attitude.
Brothels and privet operators should be able to open anywhere with consideration for its environs and people who work and live in the vicinity they should be simple and not in your face, discreet and promote safe sex.
Privet operators working from home pose no threat to the local area providing they also respect rules that would apply I do believe prostitutes should register as a sex workers as other professionals do for example counsellors and doctors register with there recognised professional bodies. I make a connection with sex work and the above professions as counsellors relive the mind, doctors relive pain and ill health. Professional sex workers relive sexual frustration a powerful urge that every human suffers.
I find working on the street to be more associated with female prostitutes rather then male prostitutes and can not comment as I’ve no experience of this except while working as a pedicab rider in Dublin were I knew some girls who would offer sex from the street, most of whom would have a drug problem or have hardships so they would sell sex, some girls would not endeavour to actually provide the service and would rob the client instead. Personally I do not feel this is the appropriate place to provide the service as it is dirty sleazy and it’s not safe for anyone concerned.
Some male prostitutes would find work in pubs and clubs. I personally do not operate in this way but some of my colleges do and find there is no real harm as most boys would be discreet in soliciting a client and most clients would generally approach the escort this is fine but again very similar to working from the street as abuse dose happen.
How old is an appropriate age to start working as a sex worker? Well personally I started quite late at the age of 26, some might say the perfect age I started because of hardship and dept but I consensually made the decision to sell sex and I operate honestly and don’t mislead my clients as I see it very much as a business and its not good business to operate with bad work ethics. This is just me there are sharks in any business and prostitution is open to the biggest.
I feel 18 is old enough for most but I believe you should work in a organised house were your protected to a certain degree and have the support of others around you I feel it’s a decision you have to be mature enough to make and normally make it a certain stage of maturity I also feel you should have some other qualifications or work experience prior to prostitution.
Teenagers who have worked as prostitutes and currently work today may be going through the mill at home having sexuality problems and money problems perhaps drug problems to.
Legislation is the only way to deal with illegal and immoral behaviour at lest then there would be help from within the industry and government help to curb abuses that take place a two tear ruling 18 – 21 year old sex workers must work in a controlled environment and above 21 year olds can make a choice to work privately or otherwise. Legislation should be open to review at any point but should also be discussed with working prostitutes and allow for there needs above all over the clients rites as the prostitute is open to more abuse.

Posted by Daniel on 04 Oct 04

Can anyone tell me if you can be prosecuted as a punter in a brothel?

Posted by Ian on 12 Nov 04

I was conned in a sex show, went into it and had a poledance. Next think they want £550 of me as I note behind the door says entry etc.. will cost x amount.
I was forced to signed a form that said i owed them the money before i could leave. They took my name and some cdit card details.
Said if i did not pay up they would take me to small claims court
Should I be worried?
Richard

Posted by Richard on 30 Nov 04

Conned by a sex show
Was this in London's Soho?
I'd talk to Westminster council's Trading Standards - they'll be able to tell you what, if any, licences the venue has - and the police - if they wouldn't let you leave, they may have been committing an offence. Both are likely to have had complaints about the place and the more they get, the more likely it is they'll close it.
I'd also talk to the credit card company for their advice and to see if they've extracted money already.
I would expect them to pursue you for the money, but whether or not they'd turn up in court, I can't say.
At one point, staff at such dodgy places would insist on "escorting" you to the nearest cashpoint before they'd let you go...

Posted by SW5 on 01 Dec 04

Thanks, I think they just try and scare u into paying since they would have taken £150 if i returned. I will worry if they chase my but dont have addr so full credit card either. I do intend to report them thanks

Posted by Richard on 01 Dec 04

if u have sex with your partner and made clear that you dont want to if they have sex with other people,is it rape if they lie and get what they want under false pretences?

Posted by jane doe on 03 Dec 04

My daughter has been involved in something if both sexes (male and female) are under 16 what happens in the eyes of the law bearing in mind the male is 14 and the girl 15? And they both consented to each other?

Posted by Damon on 04 Dec 04

Rape?
I'm not sure I understand the question: are you asking if it is legally 'rape' if someone lies to you by saying they are not also having sex with someone else when, in fact, they are?
If so, the answer is no.
See http://www.sw5.info/rape.htm for more details, but if you consent to something knowing it is for a sexual purpose, then it does not matter - legally - if they've lied in order for you to give that consent.
(Morally, on the other hand...)
Everyone old enough to have sex should know that there are some people who will lie in order to get the sex they want, and act accordingly.

Posted by SW5 on 06 Dec 04

Underage
During the debates on what became the Sexual Offences Act 2003, there was some champagne on offer to anyone who could come up with a way of writing a law that would catch abusive sexual behaviour between U-16s (which everyone agreed should be punished) without also including non-abusive behaviour between U-16s (which most people agreed should not be...)
No-one won it.
So the position is that it's illegal - s13 "Child sex offences committed by children or young persons" - with a maximum penalty of 5 years.
However, if it were to come to the attention of the police, no action would be taken if it were clear it was a case of genuine informed consent on both sides.
Note that if someone causes or encourages them to have sex, then that would also be illegal and possibly more likely to be prosecuted, depending on the circumstances.
So saying, "If you decide to have intercourse, here are some condoms," should be ok, but "You two must have sex, it's great!" is less likely to be acceptable.

Posted by SW5 on 06 Dec 04

Can anyone tell me of any legislation, licensing, or guidlines I may need in order to set up an internet based high class escort agency...?
Thanks

Posted by charlie on 06 Jan 05

A 14 year old female relative has been having sex with her 24 year old boyfriend. The police have become involved because her doctor reported it, what are the chances of him being prosecuted and her parents also?
What happens to patient confidentiality in this case?
They are a perfectly law abiding family otherwise and the couple told her parents when asked.

Posted by DG on 29 Jan 05

The laws surrounding running a brothel state there has to be control and gain. If a group of workers got together and opened a place, using money charged at the door to pay overheads only, therefore there would be no gain for any specific worker and the girls decided what hours they would each work and charged their own prices therefore being no control, could all or one of them still be prosecuted?

Posted by Tammy on 01 Mar 05

Brothels - not much control is too much
That's not quite right: the few remaining bits of the Sexual Offences Act 1956 mean it is still an offence "for a person to keep, or to manage, or act or assist in the management of, a brothel" - no element of gain is required!
So although this is exactly the sort of setup that many people would like to see, it would be illegal for at least one of the workers: someone has to pay the bills, for example, and that's enough 'assisting the management' of the place to be caught out by this law.
Other sections of the 1956 Act make it illegal to rent the property to you or for any "tenant, occupier or any person in charge of premises to knowingly permit them to be used as a brothel."
In practice, it depends on the local police. In most cities, provided it didn't annoy the neighbours, it would not be a priority for them and several such co-ops have been around for years without having been closed down despite being widely publicised.

Posted by SW5 on 01 Mar 05

Is it illegal for someone, ie American citizen, that is legally in the UK as a dependant on his partners work visa, to escort in the United Kingdom.

Posted by Frank on 18 Mar 05

Work visas
I don't know. In general, if you can 'work' in the UK, either for an employer or for yourself, you can work as an escort.
I would hope that the visa makes the position clear, but if not, you need to talk to someone who specialises in the area, whether at the Home Office, a charity like the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants or an independent lawyer.

Posted by SW5 on 21 Mar 05

*Prosecution Stats*
what are the statistics for prosecutions for control of a brothel, where there is no drugs, under agers, slave workers etc... and what sentences have been emposed, especilly when pleaded guilty in a magistrates court. also on what grounds would the case go to crown court?

Posted by Tom on 11 Apr 05

Prosecution stats
Unfortunately, they're not broken down in this way - if you want to try to make a Freedom of Information Act request, do let us know how you get on!
A look at the back of the Paying The Price consultation document reveals the Home Office knew of a total of four cautions and eight convictions in magistrates courts in England and Wales for brothel keeping offences in 2002. (That's down from a hundred convictions in 1992.)
Clearly, there were rather more than twelve brothels actually operating in 2002.
There's no indication as to sentencing, but it's worth noticing that the Magistrates Association website suggest that a period of imprisonment is suitable for a second 'carding' offence, ie advertising a brothel via cards in phone boxes.
What gets you in the crown court is usually a 'more serious' case - if you've been running a large chain of brothels, for example.

Posted by SW5 on 11 Apr 05

i'm thinking of doing porn shoots/videos but am unable to find what the laws are on making and distributing the products...can you help?

Posted by dean on 05 May 05

Porn laws
We've a leaflet coming out very soon on this, but in the meantime...
Making: You need to avoid involving anyone under 18 - if they're 16 or 17, the sex they're having should be legal, but images of it are not (Protection of Children Act 1978, following the Sexual Offences Act 2003). Apart from that, if the sex is legal, filming it is.
You will also need to consider the health and safety of your performers.
Distributing: The two main laws are
a) the Obscene Publications Act 1959. This says distributing something is illegal if it has 'a tendency to deprave and corrupt those likely to see it'. In practice, modern juries will only convict images of abuse, particularly child abuse, and bestiality.
The police will also sometimes sieze other material, e.g. including BDSM, and use a section of the Act that means magistrates, not a jury, decide its fate.
b) Video Recordings Act 1984. This makes it illegal to distribute videos without a certificate from the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC). They used to cut virtually all explicit sex until a successful appeal by some porn producers meant the BBFC was forced to introduce the R18 certificate.
They used to have a list of examples of what they would and would not allow in their discription of the R18 rating. This has now vanished, but their censorship policy has always been based on what the police think is obscene or harmful, eg fisting, most BDSM play etc.
Any commercial company will insist on you having proof of age and 'model releases' (a contract between you and the performers giving permission for you to distribute the images) before they'll touch it.
It is a hard market to make much money in, whether as a perfomer or producer.

Posted by SW5 on 06 May 05

hi there,what does the client live who stopped cheques and his name/tel no? I had that experience and did not get £350 i should have earned! Thanks x

Posted by Leong on 11 May 05

Its only fair that those who can afford to rent a premise and share it with friends for sex work are allowed to do so, as we cannot all fit into soho brothels. Paying for a flat to be used as a brothel is not as easy and as profitable as many may think and most of those gals who take the risk to rent flats are working gals anyway (pimps not included)who cannot work everyday of the month and thus have friends or gals who are interested in working to help them sometimes. It shouldnt be classified as gaining or controlling...we cannot all afford to rent premises. Its easier for me to go and work at a friends flat and pay the rent for the day am working rather than commiting myself to a monthly rent...that way, I dont put too much pressure on myself. If my friends all worked alone in the flats, I would be forced to work in the streets which is more dangerous than working in a flat

Posted by Santa on 30 May 05

Updates
Prosecution stats
There was a recent prosecution of a woman running a 24 hour brothel in Central London. It reportedly came as a surprise to her that her profits could be seized.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4580671.stm
Another owner, this time of a brothel in Darlington, was ordered to pay nearly £350,000 after the judge commented he'd failed to pay tax on his income:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4360409.stm
Cheques
We emailed Leong directly. The Police are now investigating the punter.

Posted by SW5 on 14 Jun 05

Sharing flats
Quite.
We hope the brothel laws will be altered to allow genuine co-operatives to operate, for example.
If we hear of any progress in changing the laws, we'll let people know.

Posted by SW5 on 14 Jun 05

If i put advertisements in the paper for sauna /massage using my partners visa .does this mean he would be breaking the law

Posted by donna w on 27 Oct 05

Paying for sauna ads
It's difficult to be sure without knowing more.
My feeling is that if you're talking about ads for a typical 'sauna' brothel (i.e. there's sex for sale on the premises) then if the police decided to close it down then they may see this as evidence that your husband was involved in running it - which is illegal.
You probably know the level of police tolerance in your area and can judge how likely that is.
If you're worried, the best solution is probably to find another way of paying for them.

Posted by SW5 on 27 Oct 05

I work as an escort from my own home i.e. I'm a leaseholder, not a tenant. If the neighbours complain to the freeholder, can my lease be revoked without warning, or does the legal procedure require a warning, with no further action being taken if I'm seen to comply?
Uschi

Posted by Uschi on 10 Jan 06

are all massage parlours going to be closed and if so when from

Posted by valerie oneill on 20 Jan 06

Leasehold
What does the lease say? Many leases have a ban on 'immoral' activities, and breaching that is potential grounds for termination.
It'd be very unusual for this to happen, unless you're seriously annoying the neighbours.
(For one thing, they probably do things that are against the terms of their lease too - there are usually a lot of obscure 'you must's and 'you must not's in leases.)
How would they know you're escorting?
For housing queries, we recommend a call to Shelterline - 0808 800 4444 (free from landlines and some mobiles).

Posted by SW5 on 20 Jan 06

Massage parlours
The short answer is 'no'.
The longer answer - presuming that you're talking about parlours that are actually brothels, i.e. where people are having sex there - is that at the moment, they're illegal.
(The people working there don't commit an offence, but the owners and managers do.)
What the police do about this varies greatly from one place to another. In some cities, the police invite owners onto a committee to talk about how they can best work together. Elsewhere, they're largely ignored, unless the owners aren't paying their taxes or there are drugs or trafficking involved. And in other places, they're raided and shut down as soon as they come to the police's attention...
What the recent government document says is that they will seek to legalise two or three people working together, as this is safer than working alone.
What exactly is meant by this is not yet clear - two or three people working at any one time? Or only two or three people alllowed to work at any one premises?
In any case, any change in the law will take about two years to be actually happen (this is not going to be the government's top priority!)

Posted by SW5 on 20 Jan 06

Cheers for that! I'll give Shelterline a call.
Yeah, sure, other people in the building are breaking the terms of the lease, but keeping a dog or not insulating your floor properly isn't quite the same as selling sex in most people's eyes.
Escorting is quite easy to prove. A (modest) stream of men coming to my door is bound to raise eyebrows eventually, and a bit of a surf on the net, combined with a few phonecalls will soon come up with my address. I'm not bothered about what they suspect - it's the fact that it can be proven so easily and cheaply that worries me. The incentive for the freeholder is huge, since having my lease revoked would mean losing all the equity in it. Terrific earner for them...
I've decided to solve the problem by hiring a small studio flat to work from. Better than getting paranoid I might get found out. Quickest way to look raddled, and that would never do....
If the law on allowing mini-brothels actually comes through I'll be happy to rent a larger property. Not entirely convinced it'll happen, though, with all the hollering about "not in my backyard" etc.
Anyway, mustn't ramble - many thanks again for your reply.
Uschi

Posted by Uschi on 20 Jan 06

What's the legal position on picking up a prostitute on the street but you take her to a hotel? Can the police prosecute or is does it become a private matter between two consenting adults?

Posted by Kader on 29 Jan 06

Picking up
If you were in, or had just got out of, a car or other vehicle when you first made contact, you would probably be seen as kerb-crawling.
If not, it is possible you could be charged with soliciting if you have been actively propositioning people rather than merely being propositioned.
Once you have got off the streets, it is legal.

Posted by SW5 on 12 Feb 06

Criminalisation of Transmission
I just wanted to add a couple of points to the coverage of HIV transmission and criminal law on the site.
First, although it may very well be the case that the CPS will not prosecute where there is evidence of condom use, it's important to recognise that witness credibility is very important in criminal trials. In other words, if the punter says "he didn't use condoms, do you think I would have had sex with otherwise?" and he is the person that the jury believes then it doesn't matter what the truth of the matter is (assuming that the source and route of HIV transmission is established).
Second, it's not quite true to say that disclosure of known HIV positive status will in and of itself provide a defence if a charge is brought. The jury would have to be satisfied that disclosure resulted in a "willing and conscious" (i.e. informed) consent to the risk of transmission. If the punter is not aware of the risks associated with certain kinds of sex (and the jury believe this) then the court may find that despite disclosure there was no consent. I realise this may seem a little far-fetched, but it's a better description of the law. This is also important in cases where, e.g., the punter asks "are you HIV positive" and the answer is "you've got nothing to worry about" (because a condom is being used). Such an answer from an HIV positive person wouldn't necessarily count as disclosure; so if the condom slips or breaks and the punter is infected, consent wouldn't necessarily be available as a defence.
Third, although it's not settled, it's important to recognise that where a condom IS used (but slips or breaks resulting in transmission) it may be possible to establish that the condom wearer was reckless (because he may still be aware of the risk of transmission)

Posted by Matthew Weait on 22 Feb 06

Dear SW5, I have to say, I am genuinely intrigued by your feedback. In between jobs and after much looking around for normal office 9-5 work, I was frustrated and desperate.
Many friends have suggested jokingly that I aught to consider Male Escorting. But I have always considered it too low for me. But, in truth I still had no idea. This morning I thought to research through google and see what its all about. I did find Cavendish Knights and Ideal Escorts (both of which I applied to - but am yet to give them money).
Also, I am genuinely looking for a non-obligation-to-have-sex - type of set up. So, most of your responses seem in defence of people looking to get into escorting for example/. But can you therefore put the shoe on the other foot and say whcih agencies out there if any are good/reputable enough to sign up with and hopefully allow the uninititiated to avoid the pitfalls you so articulately address above.
Thanks for your steer btw. I look forward to your response!
Karl

Posted by Karl Effenbergsson on 28 Feb 06

My friend and I recently visited a 'sex club' in soho after a night out. It was the first time I had intended on paying for sex. The women at the desk charged us £5 entry and when asked said that we should 'speak to the girls about other services'
Went downstairs, sat down and a 'hostess' started chattin to us- she then asked for a drink and ordered us a few. I naively asked her if she offered sex. She said no but then mumbled something afterwards.
A few minutes later we were bought a bill of £124!! apparently for 'hostess fee' and drink charge for the two of us- none of which we particularly wanted. The hostess told the bar 'manager' that I asked for sex and the manager said that it was illegal to ask a woman for sex- and that it was on camera- for fear of prosecution I paid up - am I mug- whats the law on this?

Posted by harry on 11 Mar 06

Clip joints
These establishments prey on people tempted in with false promises and you've fallen victim to a classic rip-off at a 'clip joint' or 'near beer' venue, I'm afraid.
That they can afford expensive Soho rents gives an indication of just how many people have fallen for it over the decades.
Because of licencing issues, despite their names, the over-priced drinks will not have had much alcohol in them, hence the name 'near beer'.
Complain to the licencing department of Westminster Council, who issue the licences for Soho. If they don't know of complaints, it's hard for them to successfully refuse licences.
http://www.sw5.info/morelaw.htm#nearbeer
To answer the actual question :) the short answer is 'no, it's not illegal'.
The slightly longer one is that if, in general, the approach is a) unwanted and b) accompanied by some sort of touch, it can be. The classic example is someone who kissed a woman, without asking first, and asked her for sex - the latter made the kiss sexual, and as it was unwanted, it was held to be an indecent assault.
If you're not in a public place (i.e. on the street or similar space) then you can happily offer to pay.
In this particular circumstance, had there been sex for money on offer, then the venue would have been a brothel. It's legal to be a client in a brothel and to sell sex in one, but not to own or run one.
There are various websites dedicated to 'punting'. None of the ones worth looking at charge money to see ads or reviews (also known as 'field reports'). Both sometimes need to be viewed with a huge pinch of salt, though.

Posted by SW5 on 14 Mar 06

Dear SW5
Thank you for getting back to me on that query. Just one more thing- if I were to ask (and I don't intend at all doing this)a checkout girl at my local tesco's when is is reasonably quiet 'would you have sex with me' or 'do you offer sex' in a polite manner what would be the legal consequences of the dialouge- please let me know
Cheers
Harry.

Posted by harry on 15 Mar 06

Hi SW5!
I am looking in to starting up an escort agency, though I want everything to be above board and legitimate. Is this at all possible?
I'm happy to pay taxes, look after and give advice to any self employed escorts that would use my booking service.
Is there any way that I could go about owning/running an escort agency and avoid a stretch at Her Majesty's Pleasure (goal)?
Thanks.

Posted by Dan on 26 Mar 06

Legal agencies?
There are several potential problems in making an escort agency completely legal, but the main one is that controlling someone else's prostitution for gain is illegal.
When the Bill that is now the Sexual Offences Act 2003 was going through Parliament, the examples of what that was expected to cover included telling someone where to go, i.e. what escort agencies do when sending staff to clients.
So unless you're prepared to give up the element of gain for this, i.e. not receive anything yourself, the answer is 'no, it's not possible'.

Posted by SW5 on 29 Mar 06

Picking up at Tesco's
If you are a manager at the store, you'd risk being caught up in a sexual discrimination case, and possible internal disciplinary action.
As a member of the public, the consequences would be much more likely to be social than legal: you may find yourself unwelcome at the store, for example.
In either case, if were to go around asking large numbers of people for sex, without a clear sign that they are interested, you may well get a reputation as a sex pest with the attendant social consequences.
Potentially, this could also be seen as anti-social behaviour and result in you receiving an ASBO.

Posted by SW5 on 29 Mar 06

Straight male escorting
See our page on this: sw5.info/straightmen.htm
For a non-sexual service, you are probably better off approaching a modelling agency, but the same advice applies: they should make their money from finding you clients, not from you. If they ask you for any money, including for a portfolio, consider very carefully before handing it over.

Posted by SW5 on 29 Mar 06

Criminalisation of Transmission
Thank you! For those who do not know, Matthew is one of the people who has been following this issue and providing invaluable informed comment and analysis from the start.
I hope we have accurately portrayed how unclear the situation is in several of these regards.

Posted by SW5 on 29 Mar 06

SoHo clip joint scam
Hi, I was in SoHo and a girl offered a peep show for £5. I handed £10 (expecting change), went in and was taken into a room where the girl chatted to me for a few minutes before parading two other girls. A guy then came in and pointed out that there was a hostess charge of £295 and that I'd be required to submit my details if I didn't have the money on me. I told him I wish to bail out, and he said that I was being recorded on camera and they'd get their solicitor to lodge a claim through the small claims court. I tried to leave and they detained me against my will, and threatened to call the police.
They blocked the exit, and demanded to see my driving licence. I flashed it for a few seconds and they demanded it, threatening to call the police. I pointed out that I was being detained against my will.
I then dialled 999 on my mobile and they opened the door and let me go.
I spoke to one Met Police officer and he was unhelpful saying that it was a civil matter, and that they were entitled to charge me 295 pounds, and that I should have seen the microscopic sign on the door when I went in (which I don't recall, as the hostess lured me straight in without any mention of registration charge).
I then spoke to another Met Police officer and he assured me that I was lucky to only have lost 10 pounds. He said that would be the end of the matter now, and that I need not worried about being pursued. He also said that they probably didn't have cameras. I was handed a leaflet which had a general warning about the scam.
If the establishment managed to get my address, is there anything they could do? Could they lodge a legal claim? Are they likely to? What is the best course of action?

Posted by anon on 02 Apr 06

Further to my last posting, I had a thought ....
When the hostess spoke to me, she talked about the services on offer at the venue, which include sex. A parade of about 2-3 women followed. Irrespective of whether they'd have carried it out or not, they appear to have offered sex.
Under UK law, it is illegal to run a brothel (defined as having more than 1 woman). Does this change anything?

Posted by anon on 02 Apr 06

hi was picked up for kerb crawling about 3 years ago and the police gave me a caution, just wondering how long the caution stays with me and does it remain active for the rest of my life

Posted by James on 03 Apr 06

According to a quick search on the internet, a police caution is "spent" after five years. After this time, it can still be brought up if you apply for certain jobs where your caution might suggest a risk. I found this info at www.askthe.police.uk.

Posted by anon on 03 Apr 06

Not sure why SW5 feels there is controversy about convicting people over reckless HIV transmtion?
If someone I was in a relationship with knew they were +, didn't tell me, had sex with me and I became infected i'd be fuming... and surely they deserve the consequesnces?
I don't see whats to defend or how it could be a grey area. Perhaps its more controversial to PROVE these matters, and becomes a matter of credibility of testimony/ acting ability -is that the objection?
Only seeking clarity ;-)

Posted by tanya on 07 Apr 06

HIV controversy
Have you read the Sigma Research paper that's available on this site?
There is a controversy and for good, health promotion-based reasons. If people expect the law will protect them from HIV, rather than condoms, then more people will be infected.
I'd be fuming as well... but I'd accept that it'd be my fault too.

Posted by Richard on 13 Apr 06

HI iv been asked by 2 brazillian girls i know to rent a flat for them to work from as prostitutes i would not be making money from it only putting my name on the tenancy agreement as these girls are here in the uk without visa's?They currently work in a a locally run brothel which takes more than 50% of there earnings and supplies nothing other than a room and customers.

Posted by mark on 26 Apr 06

Helping two workers
If they don't have entry visas, they are in a particularly vulnerable position. Many brothels and agencies won't want to have them: having illegal immigrants on your staff makes it more likely that you'll be raided.
With two people working there it would, of course, count as a brothel.
While the two workers wouldn't be committing an offence, at least as far as the sex work laws are concerned, you would be - it's an offence to knowingly alllow premises to be used as a brothel, even if you're not making any money from it.
(As you would be a tenant, rather than the owner of the property, it would even be an offence if only one of them were working there.)

Posted by SW5 on 26 Apr 06

re:helping two workers,
Thankyou for your rapid response but im confused as to why it would be an offence for even one work as i would be a tenant not a property owner?Also could this carry a custodial sentance for me?

Posted by mark on 27 Apr 06

Re: Helping two workers
When we tell people what the legal situation is, we don't claim it is sensible!
The relevant law is the Sexual Offences Act 1956.
Section 34 makes it illegal for a landlord to knowingly permit a brothel in any part of his premises.
Section 35 makes it illegal for a tenant to knowingly permit a brothel in any part of the premises he rents.
Section 36 makes it illegal for a tenant to knowingly permit any part of the premises he rents to be used for the purposes of 'habitual prostitution', i.e. including use by a single person. There's no equivalent offence for landlords.
All of these carry a possible prison sentence: up to three months for a first offence, up to six months for any others.

Posted by SW5 on 27 Apr 06

I am a young man in London trying to make a living with no real qualifications. I am good looking, I work out alot and I'm confident. I've have never had a problem with atracting women.
I recently joined Network Escorts to earn good money doing what I do best, talking to women. They sent me a card and as you said, they gave me a booking in a couple of months time. After reading what happened to someone else on this site I'm going to cancel my standing order. So thank you.
I am genuinly *not* interested in getting paid for sex. Am I just naive? You said in your Straight Male Escorts page that "For non-sexual work, there is at least one agency that passes our basic test of not charging its staff" could you post their name?
Thank you for your help.

Posted by Dan Godwin on 27 Apr 06

Could you please tell me if im right for the police to prosecute for *control* of working girls one girl would have to testifie against you so therefore if its only girls who you are good friends with and are *protecting* from the likes of the albanian and polish pimps the police would have a hard time proving that you wree knowingly running a brothel?but also if this was proved what sentence can it carry?

Posted by mark on 27 Apr 06

Non-sexual straight male escorting
Sorry, but for reasons which I hope are obvious, we can't recommend particular agencies. In this specific case, we also have no more information about it beyond what's on their website.
We would be surprised if anyone is making "a living" as a non-sexual straight male escort. Have you considered other possibilities, such as bar work?

Posted by SW5 on 28 Apr 06

Control or protecting?
There are at least two issues here.
Controlling someone else's prostitution is legal, if they're over 18. What's not legal is 'control for gain', i.e. making money or getting some other benefit from it.
It would probably be harder to prove without cooperation from the people concerned, but certainly not impossible.
If you are involved in owning or helping run somewhere that's a brothel, i.e. somewhere that has more than one person offering sex, even if you are not making any money, then it would be much easier to prove without cooperation.
Both offences carry a maximum sentence of seven years. Depending on the circumstances, a fine may be more likely, along with the confiscation of any assets believed to be the result of your offence.
If you know of people needing protection, or of people using or threatening violence, we advise contacting the police.

Posted by SW5 on 28 Apr 06

recently in darlington a man was charged with running A brothel, but within all the evidence there was no proof that he knew that the "girls" were offering sex [..] he was still labelled as a "pimp". i dont believe that this is right and how come all the brothels that keep girls off the streets and safe, fed, and sometimes keep them from getting raped or even murdered get busted yet prostitutes still rome the streets endagering themselves, can no-one see that brothels are the way of the future? alot more girls will be safe they will have a safe place to be and to earn a living. does any one agree?

Posted by kirsty on 14 May 06

any info would be helpfull
i have worked on my own for several years building up a very succesfull business that i really do enjoy
my sister is my maid and i have a friend who work with me as well on the days that my sister/maid is not able to ( i know that this is illegal but ....
the police in my area pretty tolerant but my neighbours have sussed and im just wondering what they might do its one old dear who live opposite and she is telling everyone ( not bothreed about that ( my landlord is abroad so i dont percieve any probs from him ) just woderign what to do if the neighbours report me to the police ect do i have to let them in
I did have another place and the police came along and asked me to shut which i did (did not realise that there was a copper living in the building) but they went into the flat after i left onthe day that i was asked to leave and removed all of my stuff including toys uniforms phones personal stuff ect ( had visons of a copper in my sexy PVC catsuit ect (which i got back by going down to the polcie station)
they werent nasty ect just did not think that they could do this

Posted by charlea on 14 May 06

hi, i have student visa, shall i work as working girl? and if i am working as for ansnwer phone call is that like manager,do i will be get any problem?thanks

Posted by cris on 16 May 06

Darlington brothel
Depending on which charge is made, the level of proof need not be not very high. If people are, in fact, offering sex and you are found to be in charge of the premises, that will often be enough unless you have clearly made an effort to stop them, e.g. by firing anyone known to have done so.
In their response to the Paying the Price consultation, the Home Office acknowledged that indoor work is generally safer and said they proposed altering the law to allow two or three people to work from a premises. How long this will take to become law is unknown, but if and when it is, not everyone one wants to or can work indoors.
It is also not clear what changes, if any, will be made to the 'controlling prostitution for gain' laws which cover brothel owners and managers, amongst others. At the moment, the government complains about the involvement of criminals in such roles while ensuring that they are all criminalised.
[We edited your question slightly]

Posted by SW5 on 16 May 06

The neighbours know
Some people tell neighbours they are working as a counsellor or therapist to explain the number of visitors, but it looks as if it is time to find another premises.
If you are the only person working there, it should be ok, but we do know of some places where the police have sat outside a single-worker premises, asking visitors what they are doing etc, with the consequent effect on client numbers.
Different police forces have different policies. In many cases, they are driven by public complaints and this force has already shown itself willing to raid such a setup. If they do so again, they may come with a warrant = you would have to let them in.
Other people have unwittingly opened a brothel near to a senior police officer, usually with the same outcome.

Posted by SW5 on 16 May 06

Student visa
We are not immigration lawyers, but the government's www.ukvisas.gov.uk website says students with visas for
* less than six months have to ask for permission to work
* more than six months can work for up to 20 hours a week.
but they cannot work for themselves (be "self-employed"). Most people doing sex work are self-employed, so cannot do it legally on a student visa.
If someone employs you as a receptionist, to answer phone calls and not to tell other people what to do, that should be ok.

Posted by SW5 on 16 May 06

Dear SW5
if i want to be a escort agent, so what is the requirement of the law? how can i apply for it or how can i do it?
i just want to know is it illegal or not to be a escort agent.
if the newspaper require some documents when you want to put a escort advertisement, what's document should i provide. or i heard somebody said i need to sign a agreement with the newspaper, is it a legal requirement?
thanks

Posted by Paul on 17 May 06

hia couple of years ago i was working in a flat in cambidge as a maid , even though only one girl worked the place was raided and i was arrested for control ,it was an awfull experiance an since then all other working flats in cambridge have been raided and shut down. all i did was answer the phone and door maybe make punter tea or coffee and do a few cleaning duties for a tip at the end of the day . i did NOT do any advertising etc so really dont understand why the police were so hard on me and as a result i now have a criminal record. i really enjoyed working as a maid but i am to in fear of being done to go back to it , its only recently i found out about this support network but sex workers in smaller citys are poorly informed and have little support regarding the law .thanks

Posted by anya on 27 May 06

Becoming an agency
See elsewhere for the first questions.
It will depend on the paper. Some still think it is illegal to advertise as a sex worker and so want to see things like massage qualifications so they can put you in their 'massage' section.
Others are more interested in the money.

Posted by Richard on 19 Jun 06

Working as a Maid
How long ago was this?
If anyone else ever worked there, it would still be a brothel. If not, there's something odd about this - before May 2004, as a woman, you would needed to have 'control' over her work to such an extent that it showed you were 'aiding or compelling her prostitution' before you committed an offence - did you have a clued-up lawyer helping you?
One of the frustrations with this field is that different police forces can have very different policies: what one force will raid, another will leave alone and a third will invite onto a committee to discuss issues.

Posted by Richard on 19 Jun 06

With regard to the woman convicted for 32 months yesterday for infecting a previous partner with hiv, I would like to say that i find this totally obsurd.
In this day and age the whole world is aware of how you can contract the virus, - so everbody is responsible for looking after their own well being.
Now anyone living with hiv could now become a potential criminal - what a joke !!!!

Posted by Anonomous on 20 Jun 06

I agree with you Anonomous - if someone pokes someone else without practising safe sex then they are just as much to blame as the already infected person

Posted by Sarah on 20 Jun 06

Recent HIV conviction
What's particularly incredible about this case is that the Brixton police found the resources to conduct a year-long investigation into the woman's sex life... in a year that saw the London bombings, increased street crime and several unsolved murders.
As ever the reporting on the case, with a few honourable exceptions, has been appalling. You'd think from most of them that there are at least four 'victims' (i.e. men who chose not to use condoms) but police only found one man with HIV.
It doesn't help anyone, but that is the current position.

Posted by Richard on 20 Jun 06

Thanks SW5 replying to my question about picking up dating back to FEB 2006. The law is bizarre. So if a prostitute solicits me while I am on foot. Than if I walk her back to a hotel its alright. Yet if I get out of a car and take her back to a car it isn't. This appears to be a case of trying to find a loophole in the law. I think I will just go to a parlour. (Silly me their illegal!)

Posted by Kader on 28 Jun 06

CLIP JOINTS
I feel so damn stupid before you read this! Didn't know about clip joints until today. Well, actually until yesterday when i ended up in one! Was lulled into going into a dingy downstairs room in Soho which cost me £5 to get in, and the girl on the door said the girls would strip downstairs for no extra charge, and if i wanted a massage it was a further £20, or to spend 30mins with any of them it was £30. After being in there for about 5/10 mins chatting to some foreign bird, i was then presented with a Bill for £395!!! Said I couldn't afford to pay and disputed it. Was told it was all on camera, and was then forced to fill out some cheap photocopied form saying i agreed to pay. They only know my initial and surname, no address. In fact, i put the first line of a bogus address, and was then told i didn't need to fill in the address part??! I told her I only had 30 quid on me, which she then proceeded to pretty much take out my wallet, i then left.
What will happen now? Can/will they persue me, not knowing my address? What rights do I have?
Please help, thanks.

Posted by Wavey on 29 Jun 06

Clip Joints
The right to be pretty pissed off, for a start.
See above: you're not the first and sadly you're not going to be the last.
Without being able to find you, they'd have great difficulty chasing you for the rest of the money. If they're not even asking for a full address, it looks like they don't bother trying - be glad you didn't have much on you, and do complain to Westminster council.
www.undressedtokill.com is an interesting guide to the London stripping scene.

Posted by Richard on 29 Jun 06

Soliciting or solicited?
The idea is that the law aims to reduce the nuisance associated with some sex work.
In the first case, she'd be committing the offence, because she was soliciting in a public place (potential nuisance to passers-by).
In the second, you don't need to take her anywhere: you soliciting from a vehicle (or near one you've just got out of) is kerb-crawling (potential nuisance to pedestrians).
In the third, it's the owners and managers who commit brothel-related offences (potential nuisance to neighbours) but neither sex worker nor client does.

Posted by Richard on 29 Jun 06

Re: CLIP JOINTS
Thanks for that. At the time my first reaction was to state I was going to call the Police. She then said if I did that, she would charge me for the time it took them to actually turn up! Can you believe that!? I specificly asked the dodgy bird on the door of the definate prices, and specificly said 'im not going to get ripped off for £50 a drink or something am i?!' No, she said. Little did I know the extent of the rip-off which was enroute! Unbelievable that this kind of thing is still going on in 2006?!
I phoned Westminster council on 0207 641 1111, but they needed the exact address, which as you can imagine, i haven't got. Can someone go get it for me?! it's just down from 2 places which were a couple of doors up, right next to it. The ropey bird on the door was dark skinned and had quite bad burns on her right shoulder!! Thanks!
Having looked into this now on the internet, it seems I was quite lucky. Some blokes have been 'forced' by foreign bouncers to a cash point, and made to take out more cash. Some, have even been beaten up. The 'hostess' that sat with me chating was actually quite nice, and when i kicked up a stink with the hard b*tch with the bill, then turned to blame her, she was close to tears and kept apologising. Maybe she's seeing the wrong of her ways aswell. Who knows.
All in all, this was an unpleasant and scary experience, and if anyone has been tempted to go into one of these seedy rooms in Soho, DONT!

Posted by Wavey on 29 Jun 06

BDSM Videos
Hi SW5,
I'm a dominatrix and fetish model (in Glasgow, Scotland) and I work closely with a photographer affiliated with the chambers that I operate from. Currently, I offer personal BDSM photoshoots (as do all of the Mistresses I work with). However, after noticing that a lot of American dominatices make and sell BDSM films on their websites, this photographer and I were considering doing the same thing. There would be no sex at all in these films, no full frontal nudity and everyone concerned would be consenting and over 21. It would literally just be BDSM roleplay and torture scenes (no real blood or anything). I would then be looking to sell these videos/dvds on my professional mistress website, direct to the customer. What are the legal implications of this? CouldI be fined or imprisoned, or do I need a liscence?
Thanks very much
Diva

Posted by Diva Vegas on 03 Jul 06

BDSM videos
(Disclaimer: I have a feeling that the law regarding obscenity etc may be different in Scotland, but I can't find any evidence of the differences.)
There was a recent government consultation on 'extreme pornography' - some aspects of BDSM were considered extreme - and it is possible that the law may be changing in this area in a couple of years, including banning the possession of such material rather than just the distribution.
In the meantime, there are different standards depending on whether you're physically sending videos/DVDs or just allowing online access to videos.
Once you start distributing physical movies, you come under the Video Recordings Acts 1984 and 1993, i.e. the BBFC become interested and it's illegal to distribute videos etc without either their certification or an exemption (this would not be exempt).
They charge a significant fee for this, and do not like many forms of BDSM - you would need to make sure that consent is explicit and continuous (e.g. they do not like gags which make it impossible for someone to withdraw verbal consent).
They can also give you an R18 rating, which makes it illegal to sell the videos other than through licenced sex shops (and not, as a recent case confirmed, via the post).
See www.bbfc.co.uk for more info, particularly the section on classification decisions and the 'customers' section.
For purely online access, the current boundaries were made clear by a case involving someone running a faeces play ('scat') website. He was convicted of obscenity for the 'free preview' video available to anyone, but not for the larger library only viewable by people with a credit card.
Juries, at least in London, have a different view of what should be banned than government ministers.
If you want to sell to Americans, you would need to know about the implications of their different video standard (NTSC rather than PAL) and their different obscenity laws (at the very least, having records of participants' ages to US standards and possibly declining to sell to certain areas of the US - especially if you ever want to visit the US).
Several online payment services are also very sniffy about handling sex-related payments. The most famous has terms which allow it to close your account and keep any money within it if it suspects you're using it to do any form of sex work.

Posted by Richard on 03 Jul 06

Clip joints
Sadly "it's just down from 2 places which were a couple of doors up, right next to it" is unlikely to be an adequate description of the location for anyone to find it!

Posted by Richard on 03 Jul 06

Re: Clip Joints
Yeah, i know that! If it helps, there isn't any buildings opposite it, just some waste ground and a fence! I doubt anyone'll know where it is, so I guess if i get a summons in the post i'll have to get back there to find it out for myself!

Posted by Wavey on 03 Jul 06

Is it illegal for me to work as an escort in my own home completely independently? I have been worling as an adult model and all the other girls are foing it is there any way i can do it legaly? (pay tax, Ni etc)
nikkixxx

Posted by Nikki on 04 Jul 06

Working from home
In general, yes it's legal.
Depending on just how you have your home there may be some restrictions, but - unless you annoy the neighbours - it's extremely unlikely that anyone will bother with them.
For example, many leases have restrictions on using the property for 'immoral' purposes... and on having pets and on hanging washing outside etc etc.
There are other things to think about though:
How are you going to keep them out of areas you don't want them to see?
If one robbed you, what would they get away with?
If one came back at another time, who would they find?
If one told their friends your address, who would turn up?
If one was annoyed and posted your details through neighbours' letter boxes, what would happen?
Having said all this, some people do incalls at home successfully, knowing they're taking some big risks.
If you decide to do it, try to not let clients know it is your home. (It could be the flat of a friend and partner which you borrow.) It probably won't stop things like panties going 'missing' or them looking through your post to discover your 'real' name or.. but it should reduce it.

Posted by Richard on 04 Jul 06

thanks Richard, I have locks in all the other rooms and I will use the spare room and state i dont live there its a friends place which they were kind enough to let me borrow to work.
I feel mor comfortable knowing its legel, and owning my house i dont need to worry about a lease. I have sent away for tax forms so and spoken to a few of the girls that already do it so i think i'll give it a try.
thanks again
nikki

Posted by Nikki on 04 Jul 06

Working from home 2
Good luck. Most clients are lovely, but some are more trouble than even the highest fee could make worthwhile. The secret is being able to weed them out before they step through the door.
If possible, don't give out your address until you know they are a genuine caller - have them come to somewhere close (ideally somewhere you can see) and ring from there before they get your exact address.
Set up a system so that you call someone when the client arrives - in their hearing - and when they leave. If they don't get a second call in the time specified: they ring back and if they don't speak to you or if you don't use an agreed code word, they call for help (a friend or the police).
Get the money first and don't keep all your valuables in one place.
www.saafe.co.uk is a good source of other tips.

Posted by Richard on 04 Jul 06

this site is great i wanted to know more about becoming a male escrort and this is just what i needed! i have sign up to "network" but when i called up to activate my membership, i was told i had a booking straight away, with no pic's and a half asred discription of myself, sounded like bull to me.
is there a company i should work for can you surrgest one? i plan to cancal my membership if they try to give me trouble, what should i do?

Posted by jay on 14 Jul 06

iam worried now that you added cavendish knights to your list of the untrustworthy because as an escort agency that specialises in none sexual escort and has been promoted by the wel known vanessa felps i would have believed they were amongst the best.
They also operate a vert intensive vetting proceedure for their escorts including personal police record checks as well as voting register checks to protect the women-and which impressed me very much -please comment on ths issue?

Posted by goldhawk on 15 Jul 06

Cavendish Knights
That Feltz quote for people who haven't seen it: "A great idea, if you can afford it why not use a Cavendish Knights escort".
Why not indeed?
But the problem is that the maths shows that either hardly anyone does or that there's a VAT fraud going on. Neither suggests that they are good people to send money to.
I do not doubt that some men have got bookings through them (even if I wonder how many of them were not from journalists doing a story!) but it cannot be many.
Remember that even if you ignore the income from the hopeful wannabe escorts, if just one woman a day makes a booking, they'd have to charge VAT and provide a VAT registration number, and they don't.
The Feltz quote is from a radio show, and so the context is not easily verifiable. Another section suggests she once hosted a "great debate on male escorts" on her show.
It does indeed sound like a reaction to a news story - women using escorts is 'story of the month' every so often in the media - by a talk show host who needs to keep chattering on and on. Plus, if that's the best they can quote, what else did she say?

If you're a woman who books one, do report back on how many other clients he's had.
If you're a man looking to start work as an escort, the fee they charge is indeed much less than some of the other named and shamed sites, but it would still get you around six years of your own internet domain name for your own site promoting yourself.
Oh, I think the word SW5 use is 'unscrupulous' rather than 'untrustworthy' - Cavendish Knights pretend that the demand is much higher than it is, so that straight men give them money.
There's a reason for that: if they were up front about their "over 1400" existing escorts receiving less than one booking a day between them, who would be stupid enough to join?

Posted by Richard on 18 Jul 06

Network Escorts, here for once
See other entries for more on this bunch.
Well, they're currently trying to charge £47.50 (the cost of about nineteen years of your own domain) per month... but nearly a year after this price rise, their terms and conditions still say £37.50, i.e. even they admit they're overcharging you.
Cancel any standing orders now.

Posted by Richard on 20 Jul 06

I have been looking into visiting an s&m "dungeon" in glasgow, where a fee is paid in exchange for a session with a dominatrix - no sex just spanking etc. The premises are discreet and they have a web-site etc but i am concerned about the legalities of this. I am aware that i would be in a vulnerable situation (having read about clip-joints etc) and am even more concerned about the legal side of things - ie am i breaking the law by paying for such a service? The idea of a police raid is something that would prevent me from pursuing this interest!
Many Thanks,
Curious

Posted by Curious on 25 Jul 06

www.rmne.co.uk is based in sheffield other adverting company for male escorts who don'nt find you any work just like solos international which owned by a man named Luke.

Posted by leroy young on 27 Jul 06

Paying for BDSM
It's legal to pay for BDSM play, just as it's legal to pay for sex (with someone over 18 in both cases).
You're not currently allowed to consent to receive injuries that are more than "transient and trifling" for sexual pleasure, and if you were to receive such injuries, the main case (R v Brown) suggests both of you would be guilty if it ever came to court.
Although many of them wouldn't like it, the law probably regards Pro-Doms/Dominatrices as prostitutes - they're providing what would be seen as a sexual service, even if 'sex' isn't involved.

Posted by Richard on 06 Aug 06

This week's mail
We had an interesting anonymous letter earlier this week, regarding an 'agency' listed on our sw5.info/cons.htm page.
If the author would like to get in touch, we'd appreciate it.

Posted by SW5 on 17 Aug 06

Hi,
does anyone know any locations in london, whare working girls operate from the street(nothing sinister I promise - it is a turn-on for me thats all (and i like to see what some-one looks like before making a decision re: sex)
PS - I live in Chiswick area

Posted by Cheeser on 02 Sep 06

Streetwork areas
It really is not difficult to discover where these are.
People doing streetwork may get upset if you are treating them as free entertainment.
Plus if you're using a vehicle, you risk being questioned by police in relation to kerb-crawling - some forces will contact you if you're driving around such areas even if you're not seen to be picking people up.

Posted by Richard on 06 Sep 06

My boyfriend got me so exited when we were having sex a few weeks ago, that I took his penis in my mouth after it had been in my back passage. It tasted foul and I thought I was going be sick. Now he keeps trying to get me to do it agin. Is it safe to eat my own body waste??. He tells me they do it in porno movies all the time. I do love him and wont to please him.

Posted by Sarah on 08 Sep 06

Oral sex after anal sex
Yep, it's a curiously popular feature of some porn films, where it's sometimes known as 'A2M' or 'ass to mouth', and is an example of how porn films don't represent the reality of people's sex lives.
It's not a good idea, healthwise, and you should think carefully about doing something you don't enjoy in order to please someone else.
(Similarly he needs to think about the implications of pressurising someone to do something they don't really want to do.)
If you want to reduce the problems of the taste and the health risks, and he doesn't want to wear a condom for the anal sex part, then you could consider having an enema (washing the rectum with warm water, see "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enema") first.
Alternatively, use a Femidom - take the inner ring out, then insert the pouch in your anus. His penis then goes inside the pouch, and can't come into contact with any faecal matter.
Oh - you're having anal sex without using condoms. This is about the riskiest form of sex, if he's got a sexual infection, and if you catch anything, it may not have any immediate symptoms. So are you sure you both have no sexually transmitted infections? How?
And would he let you penetrate him with a strap-on and then suck the dildo? Why not?

Posted by Richard on 08 Sep 06

Hey Richard, I didn't say I was after cheap thrills or 'entertainment' as you out it. What I meant was, that I prefer the street scene - meeting women in that way (as opposed to walk-ups etc.). ok? Anyhow - reason i posted my Q here, was that it wd save me a lot of kerb-crawling..so if you have a location, I'd be grateful

Posted by Cheeser on 09 Sep 06

I have a profile online which gets me quite a lot of work; I am essentially self-employed and do not work for an agency. I accept bookings via email and do ask clients what services they want, however I have had problems with people not being specific enough about the services they require beforehand - and it sometimes turns out that I am not willing to engage in these things. In this event people sometimes ask for a proportion of their money back, based on the amount of time we have spent leading up to my refusal to continue (NB I do not refuse to continue the booking, just certain services).
I want to know if I am to include conditions on my webpage - stating that all services must be agreed to via email before the booking and no money will be returned in the event that I refuse to engage in services NOT explicity agreed to beforehand - is there any way I can make this contractual?

Posted by Isabelle on 11 Sep 06

Contractual services
The courts will decline to enforce any contract based on sex, so the short answer is 'no, but they wouldn't be able to sue you either'.
Making this clear on your profile is a good idea though: "I do my best to make clients happy, so if there is something you want that's not listed here, please ask before booking me to avoid possible disappointment."
Most workers would throw out someone who fails to respect their boundaries, again with no refund, so mentioning this could be a less off-putting way of phrasing the 'if you don't, tough, no refunds' aspect of it.
It can be difficult agreeing to do things sight unseen though. I'm happy to give oral sex to anyone, but if it's a man with a thick penis, I am not going to be able to get as deep as he may want. So, do I say I offer 'deep throat' or not?
Some people get round this by saying the services include x - typically anal sex, but also things like French kissing - "at discretion" i.e. sometimes they will and sometimes they won't, but with often no way of telling in advance what makes the difference, it can be confusing for clients.
No matter what you say, there will always be some clients who moan about something, as if paying you meant they had the right to anything they want.

Posted by Richard on 18 Sep 06

I joined Cavendishknights about two months ago.I have been described as good looking,in my mid thirties,go to the gym and dont drink or smoke.
I say these things because i thought i might appeal to some of the women on the site.Ive had not ONE booking since i joined.
To me it just been waste of time and £15.Ive forgotten i was a member because there has been no bookings,lol.think im going to remove my profile from the site.
This has been my experience, maybe others have had more success.
Sixfooter

Posted by sixfooter on 23 Oct 06

Cavendish Knights
See elsewhere on this site for more about this lot, but this doesn't surprise me.
Remember, either they have less than one woman booking someone a day or they're committing a serious VAT fraud. Given the enthusiasm of HM Customs and Revenue for collecting VAT, it's very probably the former.
But either way, would you say they've been honest?

Posted by Richard on 26 Oct 06

Hi Richard
I saw your comments on the VAT before joining CK.It made me sceptical about the whole thing.
I thought lets see what happens,The £15 fee is money i would spend on a night out.It just proved to me there cant be a demand for male escorts... well ones that look like me!
Sixfooter

Posted by Sixfooter on 26 Oct 06

Hi I am a video editor. I filmed and edited some clips for mistress to use on her web site. The scene depicted a masked man, being tied up, whipped and then having a cigarette stubbed out on him. The mistress then used this footage on a free section of her web site. Is this legal and if not could I be prosecuted? Essentially all I did was film and edit. I had no control over the final distribution, but am now worried?

Posted by Richard Kilty on 27 Oct 06

Editing the video
You're not 'publishing' it, the people in charge of the domain are. Without seeing it, it's difficult to make a judgement about what a jury would think about that, but it'd help if the scene was shown as clearly being consensual (they'd like it if the man wasn't gagged, for example, and wasn't going 'no, no, stop' without showing there was a safeword).
It's possible the sex was illegal (cigarette burns would probably be more than 'transient and trifling') but, again, you didn't do that.

Posted by Richard on 27 Oct 06

What a fantastic forum!
Happy New Year SW5, long may you continue to provide such a useful & much needed service

Posted by Sunni-Tara on 28 Dec 06

Sent £17.75 to CAVENDISH KNIGHTS plus spent £10 on required Police Check 3 months ago. Have heard no more from CK. Phoned them twice to find out what is going on and they put the phone down on me on both occasions. They also ignore all e-mails. Have received no work at all and have heard nothing from them. Have now written to them giving 7 days to refund monies or will issue County Court Summons.

Posted by Mr Smith on 16 Jan 07

Cavendish Knights
Go for it! Let us know how you get on.

Posted by Richard on 17 Jan 07

I joined Cavendish Knights over 1 year ago and to my surprise got my first booking last weekend!
The evening went well and I stand to make around £280 plus the initial £17.75 fee.
Great money, but don't think I could survive on £280/year! ... Plus I haven't got the cheque yet!
I'm well outside London, so don't see the situation changing.

Posted by John on 23 Jan 07

John - pleased to hear you had a booking from Cavendish Knights. Would you let us know if you receive your cheque.
I have my doubts.

Posted by out-of-pocket on 24 Jan 07

Cavendish cheques
I'm afraid I was also cynical enough to wonder about that.

Posted by Richard on 25 Jan 07

Cavendish Knights - Cavendish cheques!
To be fair, after the date, the office called me to ask how it all went and they said they will mail me my cheque at the end of the month.
They also called the client and although she was unavailable, she left them a message to say how delighted she was with the evening and with me!
This all sounds legit, as the client also tipped me £50 on the night, as well as my fee!
I will let you know as soon as I get the cheque and it goes successfully into my account!

Posted by John on 25 Jan 07

Now where have I heard "cheque in the post" before?
Please let us know if you actually receive it - and it clears.
Still have my doubts.

Posted by still out of pocket on 27 Jan 07

Hey all I have read alot of your comments and found them to be most helpfull but my under lying question is, can you make money becoming a male escourt ( non sexual ) or is it just all a get rich quick scam, is it worth trying at all, or should we just stick to the same old boring jobs that we are used too and live our lives as slaves to the system ha ha. Thanks Dave

Posted by Dave 101 on 30 Jan 07

Is there a market for non-sexual straight male escorts?
No.
Two reasons: a) the vast majority of clients for escorts - male, female, transgender - are men, and
b) the vast majority of bookings for escorts - male, female, transgender - are sexual.
I don't say there are absolutely no non-sexual bookings for straight men, but the number is tiny. Most of them are probably journalists doing a story!
Think about it: if the so-called agencies out there could find female clients, they wouldn't need to charge the men so much.
So unless you're willing to compromise on both the gender of clients and the sex bit, you need to look elsewhere, alas.

Posted by Richard on 30 Jan 07

HI I HAVE JUST STARTDA NEW ECORT AGENCY ANDI NEED TO GET SOME MAE AND FEMALE ESCORTS WERE IS THEBEST PLACE TO LOOK? I HOPE YOU DONT MIND ME ASKING.
THANKS FROM
MEDWAY-ECORTS

Posted by MEDWAY-ESCORTS on 05 Feb 07

Come and be controlled for my gain...
The most important question you need to be able to answer is "Why should I work for you?"
In the Medway area of Kent, not counting the ones that have multiple names, there are at least a dozen agencies already - why should I or anyone else work for yours?
Are you going to find me more work (how?), better paid work (how?), keep me safer (how?) or...?
Once you have a good answer to that, and the financial resources to support the business through advertising etc in its start-up period, then you have a chance of success.
You also have to accept the risk of arrest: once you start making money by controlling someone else's prostitution - and that doesn't mean having sex slaves, just finding other people work counts - you're at risk of up to seven years in jail.

Posted by Richard on 05 Feb 07

John - the end of the month has come and gone. Did you ever receive your cheque from Cavendish Knights.

Posted by still out of pocket on 06 Feb 07

John - can only assume your cheque did not arrive as we have heard no more from you

Posted by Where Is My Cheque? on 12 Feb 07

Got my cheque today!!
OK, it was a bit of a nightmare getting it though.
I had to phone them up 3 times. They said they were busy, the owner who writes the cheques wasn't available, and so on.
They never replied to my messages, their email address wasn't working, their skype service doesn't exist and you only get to speak to one girl in the office who only works in the morning!
Very poor customer services.
The only thing I can say is; get 100% of your fee from the client and not through CK's. That way, you can't go wrong.
Now the test is ... will my cheque be valid?!!

Posted by John on 20 Feb 07

Cavendish cheques 2
Yet more evidence that they don't have to write very many of them!

Posted by Richard on 20 Feb 07

Hi,,
Does anyone know the police views on escorting. I am being blackmailed by my ex partner,, he is demanding money and saying he will tell my family what i do if i dont pay him, I have the police coming to see me as i have to report him for harassment. I am not sure if i should tell the police i am an escort or i should say to them that my ex has made it all up as he is bitter.
Any advice would help,, thanks!

Posted by Annabell on 28 Feb 07

Being blackmailed
Ultimately, the decision about whether or not to disclose is up to you.
But the good news is that as an escort, you're legal, whether you work independently or for an agency.
Most (but sadly not quite all) police officers already know this. In any case, if they did take any notice, it'd only take a few minutes to discover that you're doing nothing illegal.
In general, police are far more interested in catching blackmailers than they are in what their intended victims are up to.
There's been a very good thread about the issue of ex-partners trying to blackmail escorts on one of the 'punting' message boards recently.

Posted by Richard on 01 Mar 07

John
Dont leave me sitting on the edge of my chair.
Tell me quickly.
Did Cavendish Knights cheque clear?

Posted by even more out-of-pocket on 01 Mar 07

* Regal Escorts *
I just filled in a profile of myself on the website for regal escorts but have not paid the admin fee. having read the other threads is it worth paying the fee and if not can i get rid of the profile so that my details aren't in cyberspace for everyone to see.
Thanks for your time

Posted by anon on 02 Mar 07

Regal rip-off
No, it is not worth paying the fee. Yes, you should be able to get rid of the profile.

Posted by Richard on 06 Mar 07

I was recently convicted of benefit fraud,I had been working in a clothes shop earning just £50 on top of my benefit.I have a friend who is also on benefits who works in a massage parlour in Mchester,she earns on average£500pw.She is not on drugs,and she is not being forced to do it by evil pimps.She does it because its good money,and in many cases good fun!She has suggested that I give it a go because the benefit fraud agencies turn a blind eye to this aspect of benefit fraud,thanks to the naive comments made by politicians such as Dennis McShane.How long before we are turned into a nation of whores and punters?

Posted by alice b on 15 Mar 07

Benefits
It can be extremely difficult to survive on benefits (been there, done that) but as a number of people will be able to tell you, it's not true that the benefits fraud people ignore sex work.
Instead, along with the tax people, they tend to be more interested in 'indoor' work than the police.
I'd expect the Manchester parlours to actively co-operate with them too - it'll be one of the conditions of being tolerated despite everyone knowing that they're brothels and thus illegal.
I missed those comments - what were they?

Posted by Richard on 15 Mar 07

Dennis McShane
Ah, I've found an article from January 2006 where he takes the figures from a handful of street workers and applies them to the whole population of sex workers.
(Female ones, anyway. He seems to ignore the fact that men can be sex workers too.)
He also thinks kerb-crawling has been "stopped", and that massage parlours are responsible for a rise in most sexually transmitted infections.
I have a feeling he also thinks that it's a crime to be a prostitute.
Oh well, it's yet more proof that not every ex-minister understands reality.

Posted by Richard on 15 Mar 07

Yet another new scam...
With a domain registered last month, Agent Escorts are using Google AdWords to say "New Male Escorts Needed / Free to join ladies waiting! sign up now no interview".
They have a special offer at the moment: "If you join with us before the 1st may 2007 you will only have to pay £39.99 a month for life...."
Gasp! How can I resist paying them forty quid a month for life?
Should they survive that long, they're threatening to increase the fee to £69.99 a month.
Like some of the others named and shamed here, they've ripped off another scam, Network Escorts, for virtually all of their text (including their claim to have 300-500 victims already!) and no doubt their dubious business plan too.
They have managed to introduce a number of amusing spelling and grammatical errors in the process, but remember that it costs them money when you click on their ad to see.

Posted by Richard on 19 Mar 07

Causing prostitution for gain conviction
According to the BBC, there has been a conviction for this offence, introduced by the Sexual Offences Act 2003.
A man advertised both himself and a partner on an internet site: he admitted causing her prostitution, despite defence claims that she had consented to the work.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/west_midlands/6470621.stm
52] Causing or inciting prostitution for gain
(1) A person commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally causes or incites another person to become a prostitute in any part of the world, and
(b) he does so for or in the expectation of gain for himself or a third person.

Posted by SW5 on 20 Mar 07

Thanks Richard for your reply to my previous post,, you were right,, all the police were interested was that i was being threatened and harrassed,, end of story, The police dealt with my ex. The harrassment stopped. I cannot praise the police enough, they were brilliant :-)
Cheers
Annabell

Posted by Annabell on 30 Mar 07

Being blackmailed 2
Hooray!
If you'd like to mention which force this was, I'm sure they'd be grateful.

Posted by Richard on 02 Apr 07

I was approached today by a Czech prostitute. Not being out looking for it and never having used one before, I wasn't interested in sex there and then.
However, we had a coffee and a chat, and I gave her a bit of cash (£10) to help pay her rent. She was quite attractive, a nice person and we got on fine. Having sex with her could be good and, for me right now, maybe having a few gentle sessions with calm, matter of fact professionals could do me a lot of good. So I arranged to meet her next week, having determined price/services etc.
1. Her rent sounded very high for what she was getting - is that indicative of someone who has been 'trafficked' and if so, would you be in any trouble for having sex with a person 'believed to have been trafficked'?
2. Although I'm pretty sure she was over 18, how do you actually prove that someone is? Ask for their passport?
3. Clearly I won't invite her to my house - a hotel would seem the best but how do you find out which hotels have a 'no-tolerance' regime in your city?
4. Are you breaking a contract by inviting someone into your hotel room if you have booked a double room for 1 person?

Posted by Trevor on 22 Apr 07

Trafficked?
1. It depends.
When landlords know that someone is doing sex work somewhere, they can hear a little 'ker-ching' and the rent gets silly. The daily rate for a London 'working flat' would get you somewhere else for a week (or longer!)
There's no penalty for being sexual with someone who's been trafficked as such, but someone who is being forced to work in the sex industry lacks the necessary ability to consent, so it would be considered rape.
However some people confuse voluntary (but illegal) migration to work as a sex worker with illegal migration involving deception as to what will happen on arrival, i.e. people being forced into prostitution.
So there is a substantial (largely sex tourism-driven) sex work industry in parts of the Czech Republic, and many of the people working in it are aware that it's possible to earn much more doing the same work here.
Czech citizens can visit without a visa - so she shouldn't have needed to pay someone an extortionate amount to get here - but to work for more than a month needs a permit.
Exploitation is not just about making people work involuntarily. It is possible that she's paying someone both for somewhere to live and keep quiet about the work. It is also possible that she's not being honest about her nationality.
Having said that, doing outcall is a reasonable sign that she's working voluntarily. It's much easier to run away compared with doing 'incall', where someone can be making sure you don't escape.
If after talking with her, you do have any doubts, then I'd suggest considering not going through with the booking.
2. Provided she's at least 13, you don't have to be certain (legally) that she's over 18, you just need a 'reasonable belief' that she is.
Having her passport would be another good way of ensuring that she wasn't working against her will but if she's using a 'working name', she may not be willing to let you see her real one.
So it's down to things like asking her.
3. Unless you rub it in their noses ("When the prostitute I'm seeing arrives, could you...") I wouldn't expect anywhere to mind. Make sure she either knows your room number, so can go straight there, or that you meet somewhere outside first. You could ask for her recommendations - if she's been doing outcall here for a while, she'll have visited a number of places.
4. Most sensible places now charge by the room, not the number of occupants. Even if they are charging by the person, are you intending to spend all night with her?

Posted by Richard on 23 Apr 07

I have been on the look out for a legitimate escort agency in the manchester area for some time now and have failed. I am a 25 yr old male looking to entertain ladies. I am willing to offer a sexual service if the need arises. Any suggestions please?
Thank you

Posted by jak on 27 Apr 07

Manchester Straight Men
Alas, I'm not aware of any such agency in the Manchester area, although there are a few scams there.
The usual comments about the level of available work (not much) and the number of people willing to do it (lots) apply.
So one free-to-advertise-on sex work website currently has 120 men willing to escort women in the Manchester area. My guess is that most of them will never have a female client.

Posted by Richard on 06 May 07

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....though extremely grateful for SW5, you have in such a short space of time, shattered all my (naive?) illusions about the easy option of becoming a non-sexual straight male escort....I had already come across middle-aged females in my own workplace whom I had been told were actively seeking out males to accompany them to evening functions. Thus,I did believe there was a market out there....and, believing myself to have all the right credentials, I was on the verge of applying to what I had imagined to have been one of the more 'reputable' agencies(!!)...which has, I might add, already been 'named and shamed'on this message board!
I guess, like most incredible offers, it was just "too good to be true"!....alas, back to the drawing board!!! Many thanx....I think!

Posted by Jon on 16 May 07

Shattered illusions
They may be actively seeking, but are they willing to pay?
Obviously there are issues around doing this with work colleagues, but if they're not prepared to pay you (and then recommend you to their friends) why would random strangers being willing to do so?

Posted by Richard on 16 May 07

Hi SW5, As the law says that there can't be more than one person on the premises - how do I solve this problem: I am a sex worker in my own rented flat - the police is been on my case for having a brothel, although I only have one friend that comes sometimes because she wants to make money (no gain for me), the police said she can't be found there or else we both be arrested. Also I was informed that I can be the only one in the flat - but what about my daughter? Can she stay with me while I am working (she is over 20)?

Posted by Natali on 16 May 07

hie.
male escorting sounds like great way to earn easy money. what are the best escorts agencies to join. they all seem to be rip-offs. all proming work with immediate start. do you think i should get my site created to save from the hussle & bussle of untrustworthy agencies. i have thought hard and long about doing it. what's the best way to find out genuine agencies.
thanx

Posted by jamal on 13 Jun 07

Hi SW5,
A bit of clarification needed...
1. With regard to just nakedness in UK produced dvd - is an R18 certificate required to distribute in UK. Also, where would nakedness stop and a sexual act begin - e.g. what about a woman rubbing her panties - on the outside... is this a sexual act which needs certification?
2. I am understanding from reading the above that placing adult material made in the UK - for sale on a website is legal. Is it legal if there servers are in the UK as well - or should they be abroad?
Also, in the example above - you mention a case where the person was convicted for a preview of material - but not the purchasable media. Is this because the preview was indecent/obscene - or for other reasons.
Thank you in advance - much obliged,
Ginger

Posted by Ginger on 19 Jun 07

Clearer porn
1. A video recording is exempted from the need to have a certificate from the BBFC if it is designed to "inform, educate or instruct", or concerned with "sport, religion or music".
What stops people successfully claiming that 'Panty Strokers' is designed to inform, educate and instruct its viewers, is that films are not exempt if they include, "to any significant extent", "human sexual activity" or "human genital organs" (amongst other things) or is "likely" to encourage human sexual activity, including masturbating while watching it.
The producer is responsible for determining whether or not the video is exempt (and is in trouble if they make the claim and are wrong) and the BBFC are the ones who make the decision as to rating.
So lots of '18' and some '15' films have nakedness, but in the case of fetish material, the BBFC have a habit of classifying even the most apparently inoccuous material as R18.
I believe one film featuring women's feet and shoes was rated as a R18 because its intent was to arouse its (presumably foot fetishist) viewers.
2. It depends on what it is.
A 'video recording' (covered by the Video Recordings Acts) has to be delivered to the consumer on tape or disc, so material delivered via the internet is not currently covered.
However, the Obscene Publications Act still applies and if it's 'obscene' - and juries are currently reluctant to say that most material is - then it's illegal.
If the material is supplied to countries outside the UK, their laws will apply - any porn producer needs to be thoroughly aware of US laws, for example.
3. Oh, it was found to be obscene. The surprise was that the jury acquitted for the ones in the members area.
In this case, the material was hosted in the UK, but I would be amazed if a court decided that the location of the servers mattered in a case involving supplying a UK consumer.

Posted by Richard on 19 Jun 07

Two people offering sex somewhere = it's a brothel
This is also the case even if you don't work at the same time, or if you don't make money from her work - it's still a brothel, and thus illegal to run (which is what you're doing by saying she can also work there) or to allow to operate in property you own or rent.
Whether or not the police are interested when it happens depends on your location - some forces don't care, while others clearly do. (Roughly whereabouts are you?)
It does soundslike they are being a bit over-zealous in saying that they would arrest your friend: it's legal to work in a brothel and if she doesn't help operate the place, she should be ok.
Similarly, if your daughter is not offering sex, then she doesn't count (in this regard at least!) but depending on just what the situation looks like, you may find the police believe she is also working.
Given that the police are making threatening noises, your best bet is probably to stop letting your friend work there.
You might also consider looking for another place to work, especially if you or anyone else lives at the current flat or if you've managed to annoy the neighbours in some way.
(Sorry for not answering this earlier!)

Posted by Richard on 19 Jun 07

Agencies for men
Alas, despite what the scammers say, male escorting is not a 'great way to earn easy money' - definitely not if you don't enjoy having sex with other men.
If you are interested in male clients, there are several agencies worth looking at, but otherwise it is much, much, much easier to make money by lying to gullible men than it is to find them female clients, so all but a few 'agencies' promising such work are scams.
In either case, the basic test is simple: do they charge you, the potential escort, anything? If they do, they're a scam.
Because the supply of male escorts looking to escort women is vastly greater than the demand, you will probably find it difficult to find a non-scam agency that is looking for more staff.
You are indeed better working for yourself, either with your own site and/or paying to be advertise elsewhere, but be prepared for some very long gaps between clients... if you get any clients at all.

Posted by Richard on 19 Jun 07

Hi! Thanks for the heads up!
Was just about to send a cheque to Cav Knights...
Got suspicious when they did not answer skype, telephone or emails so I did some research.
You guys have saved me £18

Posted by Leonardo on 23 Jun 07

Have you seen this article on the BBC website?
No doubt you will realise that I have cut and pasted.
Clearly the owner could still be prosecuted for Controlling Prostitution for gain despite Planning permission. Read on, would be interested to read your view.
Protest at new massage parlour

The owner says the business will be discreet and professionally run
More than 200 people have protested at a site where a massage parlour and escort agency is to be built in a residential area of a Cornish town.
Mark Evens' application for the business in Liskeard was rejected by two councils, but allowed after an appeal went to the Planning Inspector.
Caradon District Council said they expected the Higher Lux Street business to operate within strict regulations.
Protestors said the planning process had shown people were opposed to it.
The Liskeard Against Massage Parlours group said the approval could lead to similar businesses being set up in the area, and they were "concerned for the well-being of their town in the years ahead".
Legal right
The application to build the business on the site of a former tattoo parlour and garage had been rejected by Liskeard Town Council and Caradon District Council.
The Government's Planning Inspectorate overturned the decisions.
Roger Jones, Caradon's deputy leader said there had not been suffiicent grounds to challenge the decision further.
He said the council was aware of concerns in the community and they had met with the police to discuss regulations and licences.
"We have to recognise that the business now has a legal right to operate and Caradon expects the massage parlour to operate strictly within the terms of the planning permission and other regulations."
Mr Evens from Plymouth says it will be a discreet and a professionally-run business and strict security will ensure there are no problems for residents living nearby.

Posted by Trawler on 21 Jul 07

Lis-where? :)
Well, it's possible that the place will not offer sexual services, but that would make it the exception.
If sexual services are on offer, the main offence would be that of keeping a brothel involving prositution. The maximum penalty is seven years.
I'm a bit surprised such a location is considered commercially viable, but it appears that although Cornwall does not have many brothels (given its size and the summer population) the handful it does have are located in very small towns.
At least two of them have been going for years, so clearly a) the police do not particularly mind them and b) clients are prepared to travel to them.
If you are a member of LAMP, then you could ask residents in Par and Innis Downs (the apparent location of the two nearest) if they have any problems with their establishments.
The answer is probably "no" - if they did, I'd expect them to have been closed.

Posted by Richard on 23 Jul 07

Reading all these coments are educating.set up a profile withagent escorts
A card with agent escorts was sent,special id number for me was sent.
All i had to do was ring them up im on there computer..i have a booking 5th of september
A month afterwards usual story man
I was also told not to book anything on the 15th of aug because there maybe another women interested.....
Im not holding my breath from what ive read on the comments on here....we shall see..
jonny

Posted by jonny cal vert on 24 Jul 07

i sighned up for regal escorts but have not paid the fee as i have problems with the website link to pay by card, within a week of being a member i have an email from a good looking woman, i can view the clients picture, but i cannot view the email she supposed to have sent me, do you think its a bot scam? where they lure me into paying with a imposter,and theres no respose when i reply, after reading messages i thinks so, should i go with it as it could be my one and only chance to get something out of it, or leave it as its a bot scam?

Posted by ian on 26 Jul 07

If you drive girls to outcalls for a brothel from a brothel to punters private home or hotel would I be doing anything illegal?

Posted by Peter on 31 Jul 07

Not very Regal
Bingo - it's almost certainly a scam. It'd be worth describing her, because I bet they don't have a very large stock of photos.
In general, clients do not send you photos prior to meetings. That's for dating sites.

Posted by Richard on 01 Aug 07

Driving Miss...?
It's an interesting question.
Transporting independent escorts should be ok, but it's recently got greyer for anyone else thanks to a case where the conviction of someone for trafficing was upheld.
This was despite everyone acknowledging that the women concerned were coming to the UK legally, completely voluntarily and knew exactly what they'd be doing here!?!
Given that it's a brothel, it also increases the chance of you being seen as one of the people running it.

Posted by Richard on 01 Aug 07

Re - Not Very regal
I've got a pic of a tidy looking woman. Long dark hair and quite tidy. Allegedly a director and in my humble opinion 'I would' if you know what I mean. I'm waiting for my membership to go live and when it does I'll find out what's in that message. Watch this space!

Posted by Liam on 02 Aug 07

Regal - I mean it when I say they're a scam
Of course you 'would', that's why they picked that picture.
Bet: once you've paid money to see 'her' message, you'll never hear from her again. Why? She doesn't exist.
It's three days later - was I right?

Posted by Richard on 05 Aug 07

Hi.
I think I have been scammed by Agent Employment, aka Agent Escorts.
I have also received an ID card and when I phoned to activate it I received two bookings; August with specific details, and asked to keep a date in September free for which I would receive further info later. I was told that the Sept booking was probably a business type function.
Having read the posts above I am now obviously a little concerned.
Anyone else had problems or even successes with "Agent."????
Any ideas of some genuine companies for potential male escorts????
What about a new one "Alpha Male" in its T&C's it appears to mention "Elegance 4 Her"???

Posted by Mike on 13 Aug 07

Does anybody know where you have to register a escort agency . I in Norwich norfolk and just cant seem to find this out...

Posted by Jeff on 15 Aug 07

Agent and Alpha Male
See the 'Safety tip #2' post for more bad news on Agent, I'm afraid.
Alphamale is a new one to me (thank you) but yes, some of the text on Alphamaleescorts.co.uk looks very, very familiar.
It's an obvious scam for the usual reason: they want money off you.
Alas, as long as it's much easier to find male victims than women wanting to pay men, there will always be many more scams... and the places that aren't will have many more men wanting to work for them than the demand needs.
It is possible to advertise for free on the main UK adult work website, but the last time I looked there were already over 7,200 optimistic men there.

Posted by Richard on 16 Aug 07

Registering an escort agency
You don't need to 'register' it.
You do need to tell HM Revenue and Customs about starting the business and pay taxes on the income.
You also need to be aware that controlling prostitution for gain (what virtually all escort agencies do) is illegal - the maximum penalty is seven years.
In practice, agencies not involving U18s or other illegal workers are way, way down the police list of priorities in most places.
Far more agencies get closed down for tax reasons (as in not paying them!) or basic business incompetence than because of the police.

Posted by Richard on 16 Aug 07

Registering a Escort Agency
Many thanks Richard for you advice.....we will stay all above board ... well try....
thanks
jeff

Posted by Jeff on 16 Aug 07

ELEGANCE 4 HER!!!!!!
I RECENTLY REGISTERED WITH ELEGANCE 4 HER (MALE ESCORT AGENCY) LAST WEEK AND PAID £199...(HOW STUPID WAS I?) BUT I TRIED CANCELLING THE MEMBERSHIP ON THE 3RD DAY BY SENDING THEM AN EMAIL NOTIFICATION AND LETTER AS WELL AS STATED IN THEIR TERMS AND CONDITION. tHEY SAID THAT I WAS ALREADY ACTIVATED AS A MEMBER SO DECLINED FROM REFUNDING ME THE MONEY, AND I HADNT USED ANY OF THEIR SERVICES YET...
THE ONLY REASON I REGISTERED WITH THEM IS, THE LADY ON THE FONE SAID THAT I WILL ONLY NEED TO PAY ONCE A 'BOOKING' WILL BE CONFIRMED, WHICH SHE DID CONFIRM, PLUS I KNEW I WOULD DEFINATELY RECOVER MY 200 POUNDS FROM THE 300 POUNDS I WOULD GAIN FROM THAT SINGLE BOOKING...BUT WHEN IT REACHED THAT DAY, NO ONE CALLED ME TO CONFIRM ANYTHING ABOUT THE BOOKING!! I HAD TO FONE THEM SEVERAL TIMES ONLY TO BE TOLD THAT THE CLIENT MUST HAVE CANCELLED....
IS IT STILL POSSIBLE TO GET MY MONEY BACK BY ANY CHANCE????
ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED

Posted by RICHARD on 22 Aug 07

I cant believe *RICHARD* runs this site with bitter taste of male escorting, did anyone consider he might of been too ugly to get bookings,
I have escorted many woman in my time and they have all told me if they see an ugly escort walking towards them grinning they run
Sorry *RICHARD* but you seem to be the ring leader here

Posted by Peter on 23 Aug 07

Ok before you start, I was a bit daft, I registered with Regal about 4 weeks ago, and sent £30 to them. Ive had one message fom a woman
asking me for an appointment in Manchester. I wasnt able to go because my subscription hadnt cleared in time. I was going to try Kavendish Knights but Ive binned the idea now.
Oh well, seemed like a good idea at the time, file under too good to be true.
Ok lets be careful out there people : )

Posted by snoopy on 01 Sep 07

You have a list of sites that are for the male escort business that are cons, but do you have any that are genuine?

Posted by Dave on 12 Sep 07

Naughty attempt to place an ad for a scam:
"This has led us to recruit for the position of Payment Agent in your Region

REQUIIREMENT FOR POSITION ARE:
..
3.Having a Functional Bank Account to receive payment (Company Account is an advantage)
..
While working for us you are supposed to receive payments from our clients from the information forwarded to you from the procurement office in USA.
..

WHAT IS YOUR INTEREST?
You will get 10% commission from the whole sum of every transaction by you.
.."
The scam is that you'll get payments in the form of cheques, typically from overseas. You pay them into your account, and roughly three days later, the amount appears in your balance. You'll then be expected to pay the 'company' 90% of the money... via a payment service like Western Union.
Why couldn't the 'customers' do that themselves? Two main reasons:
#1 They're the same people as the 'company' and
#2 The cheque will prove to be no good - overseas cheques take much longer to check out. But once the bank discovers the cheque's a waste of paper, they'll take all of the money back. (And possibly fine you via a bank charge as well.) Of course, the conmen won't hand over the money you sent them, so you'll have lost it all.
Don't fall for it.

Posted by CegoScoop on 13 Sep 07

Legal escort agency - yeah, I read that it`s not totally possible because it`s 'controlling prostitution for gain' .. okay, I`ve got no gain from it `cause I`ve got very high expenses (rent, driver, car, etc) Let`s say I pay the tax also.
But do the escorts have to pay tax? Do they have to sign a contract with me? Once I talked to an accountant about it and he told me that the escorts have to pay their own taxes each year, and if they fail to do it (obviously they do) then the tax man will finally find me, doesn`t matter the the escort signed the paper, that she`ll deal with her own taxation..
So if I`m legal - does it mean that I`ll be still illegal?!

Posted by Agent on 23 Sep 07

Illegal escort agency
Alas, 'gain' doesn't mean 'profit', it means getting anything (not necessarily money) as a result.
There's also no 'obviously' about escorts not paying tax on their income...

Posted by Richard on 23 Sep 07

hi
i went to a brothel and paid £35 in manchester
i booked in with a girl and she was really misserable in the room, she kept on saying her back was hurting and when i touched her she kept on mooving away, leading to zero sexual functions
so i bursted out of teh room, without complaining this was due to the staff was all ladies and if io complained they would take her side like protitues do. can i put a stop to this brother and how, i know brothels are illegal , but can any one help.
rooven

Posted by rooven on 23 Sep 07

Be prepared
There are places which are rip-offs, or it's possible you caught someone on a bad day (or even on their first and last day!)
In somewhere like Manchester with a wide range of venues able to operate fairly openly (their websites tend to be honest about the provision of sexual services, for example), rip-offs will struggle to last long.
This is one use of the review sites - Google something like '"field reports" escort' and you'll find there are dozens of them. One UK-wide site has over five thousand reviews for Manchester-based escorts and brothels, and there's also a site specifically for Manchester.
FRs are a two-edged thing: xome people do not like them at all, but enough do to make them a useful resource.
You can choose whether to leave a review following your experience or to base future choices on the FRs of others, remembering that not all FRs are honest and that one person's preferences may not be the same as your own.
However, if someone / a venue and its staff have consistently good reports from a wide range of clients, they're probably doing something right.

Posted by Richard on 24 Sep 07

i am thinking of opening a massage parlour in rochale and i want to know if i have to have a massage and special treatmens licence to open one. i have been on rochdale councils website and they have no such licence but nearby councils oldham and bury do have such a licence. i would appreciate any feedback.

Posted by jaki on 02 Oct 07

Hi All,

Just new not sure where to post. Having a look around.
Nice too see all the good stuff. I'll be back for more soon.

Regards,

Aaron

Posted by zzaaronzz on 04 Oct 07

if you decide to get a book an escort and she does not look she doe on her website yet you get a blow job as she ivery nervous and un calm puts you off her can you get your money back

Posted by jack on 07 Oct 07

Rochdale massage
I've no idea, I'm afraid.
I'd consider talking to the owners of the existing ones in Rochdale. If there aren't any, it's a bad sign.

Posted by Richard on 08 Oct 07

Saying no thanks
The time to say 'I'm not going through with this' because, for example, the pictures are fakes or otherwise seriously misleading, is immediately on arrival, not after a blow job!
Look at it from the other way round: if you turned up at someone's place, they'd paid you, and you'd given them a blow job... would you give them their money back if they said they'd changed their mind? I doubt it.
Once you've handed over the money, the basic rule is no refunds.
Thank you for giving another reason why sensible sex workers get the money first!

Posted by Richard on 08 Oct 07

BUT EVERY WHERE ELSE YOU CAN GET A REFUND OR SOMETHING KNOCKED OFF THE BILL EXAMPLE YOU GO TO A RESTUARNT EAT SOME FOOD NOW YOU HAVE TRIED AND DONT LIKE MOST PEOPLE I KNOW FROM WORKING IN THE TRADE KEEP UP A FUSS YOU KNOCK SOMETHING OFF THERE BILL.
YOU GO IN A SHOP BUY SOMTHING ITS FUALTY TAKE IT BACK GET A REFUND
THERE IS NO WRITEN CONTRACT WITH SEX WORKERS
SO I AM CHALLENGING THE ''BASIC RULE IS NO RUFUNDS'' IDEA
WHAT HAPPENS IF AFTER YOU HAND OVER THE CASH IT GOES PEAR SHAPED??? YOU ALL VERY PRO SEX WORKER BUT DONT SEEM TO BOTHER ABOUT THE PUNTERS
THATS WHY I DONT AGREE DEBATE THIS TOPIC

Posted by JACK on 09 Oct 07

the flat i was in got raided 2 days ago,i was arrested,and i was only the maid.i never did any banking never knew what ladies earnt,never done any advertising for the flat,but have been charged with the management side of things. i had only worked there for 3/4 days over amatter of 5 weeks.could you tell me what my penalty could be please.

Posted by gemma on 14 Oct 07

Charged with running a brothel
Gemma, the bad news is that the maximum penalty is up to seven years in prison. The good news is that it is highly unlikely you would get anywhere near that, even if you are convicted.
For example, a couple were recently charged with running two brothels in London (it looks like they annoyed the neighbours). Charges against one of them were dropped, and this week the other was found guilty and sentenced to one year - and they were completely in charge of running two places.
You need a lawyer and they need to know what you've said to the police.
You want to be able to show that you only worked there for that short time and that you had no control over anyone working there.
From what you've said here, I'm surprised you're being charged. The Crown Prosecution Service's advice to its staff says "If the assistance is crucial to the operation of the brothel or the receptionist has been involved for a long period of time, a prosecution will normally be appropriate. If the assistance is minor or over a short period of time, a prosecution may not automatically result." Do you have any previous police record?
What's happening to the owner / manager? (If the police don't know who they are, they may be picking on you as the next best thing.) Can you get any of the workers to give evidence that you didn't control any aspect of their work? What can you prove about your income from this?
Finally, where roughly was this and what was the reason for the raid, do you think? If it had anything to do with illegal workers (under 18 or not entitled to work in the UK) then it's likely to be taken more seriously by everyone.

Posted by Richard on 17 Oct 07

Saying no thanks (and NOT SHOUTING)
Sexual services are extremely subjective. Even the most cursory look at the review sites shows that different people can have very different views about the same person.
Have you considered that she might have been 'nervous and uncalm' because of you?
A friend works in a brothel in Australia. When a client is an asshole, they get sex they've paid for all right, but it is accompanied by the most obviously faked pleasure imaginable (think "Oh yes, you're the best" in an extremely bored voice while examining nails!) What do they have to complain about?
I'll say it again: if you didn't think she was the person you wanted, you should have said so on arrival, not after a blow job.

Posted by Richard on 18 Oct 07

I live with my partner who comes from Africa and has a legal, up to date UK visa. She was a prostitute when I met her and continues to practice. I drive her to a brothel where she works and then collect her at the end of her shift. No prostitution or soliciting takes place where we live, which is rented, and she keeps all the money but pays for everything. I also have my own full time occupation. Are we doing anything wrong

Posted by Clive on 30 Oct 07

Driving Mrs...
As mentioned above, this is currently a greyer area than it perhaps should be and a fuller answer would depend on things you haven't mentioned.
If you met her here, for example, I can't see a problem provided there is no coercion (you're not making her continue to work or telling her where to work). It'd help if she could clearly leave you at any point (e.g. you don't keep her passport and other documents).
What does 'pays for everything' mean? She pays for all your joint expenses (such as the rent, food, bills etc) or just her work-related expenses?

Posted by Richard on 30 Oct 07

i joined a agency called men at work. the problem is they say are registered company but when i checked with the company house they are not registered. they want me to pay £220 fees to get jobs. they talk the talk but do they walk the walk. please help with this agency. i wont part with my hard earned cash for thes crawlers until i know what they are about.
thanks
Nathan Jules

Posted by nathan jules on 14 Nov 07

Men at Work... scamming
Well done for not paying them: this lot are just another bunch of scammers and the only walk they're looking to do is off to the bank with your money, laughing.
See elsewhere here for confirmation, but the absolutely basic rule is that any 'agency' that wants money off you before you have cash in your hand from a client is a scam.
I can't find the claim to be a registered company in the terms and conditions, but there's lots of stuff like "we make no representation, promise, warranty or guarantee that you will receive work from the Website or that any Client will view your profile/personal details."
Given that I can't see anyone's ads, that's not too surprising...

Posted by Richard on 14 Nov 07

Hi
I was considering joining Alpha Male or CK escort agencies, have their application forms and standing order forms at my side. However after reading this excellent site, i have decided to bin their applications and keep on looking (in vain probably!)for someone that does not want cash from you up front.
If anyone out there knows one, please E Mail me the details, thanks

Posted by Ian on 17 Nov 07

thanks alot for the conformation of mt suspicions. they have called again to discuss the payment and how they will promote my profile. they wanted my photos so as to have them ready to activate my account.whta a load bullshit. as i always thought, the best way is to go for own my own. can you please advise me onthe best way to go about it. you are a *DIAMOND* my man. as a businessman outside this game it's to do a load of research and get the best advise. you are really te man. lots of respect to you. keep up the good work. have an excellent xmas. (if you need an escort, call me. hahahahaha. jokes. ladies only)
take care.
NATHAN JULES

Posted by nathan jules on 19 Nov 07

Looking in vain
I've mentioned elsewhere here that the single solitary agency for straight men I knew of that wasn't a scam has recently closed. I presume they never had enough business to make it worthwhile.
Part of the problem is that the scammers can afford to pay more for Google Adwords and other advertising than anyone legitimate... so they get more victims and the cycle continues.
There are places where you can advertise for free but one such site currently has over seven thousand men offering to escort women, twice what it was in February. To give you an idea of the competition, some are offering their services for free, and one I spotted recently is even offering to pay for something in particular! I still think most of them will never get a booking.
But if you're determined to try, ask on saafe.info for more ideas.

Posted by Richard on 19 Nov 07

PLEASE!! Is there anyone that knows of a legit escort agency?

Posted by Luke on 22 Nov 07

Legit escort agency
Not that does 'just' straight men. There are ones for men looking for male clients and a small handful of the ones which are basically for female escorts have a few male escorts...
... but I'll bet you anything you like that none of them are looking for more male staff.
Realistically, if you're a man and you want female clients, doing it independently is the only way. And even then you probably won't get any.

Posted by Richard on 24 Nov 07

men at work have been calling me for the last week or so bugging me for payment. eventually i told i have paid the money into their account (DEFINATELY NOT). they said they would call me back within an hour or two with my password and other details. like fuck did she call me back. up to today i'm still waiting to see if she's going to call with these details. TO EVERYONE OUT THERE, DON'T GO FOR THEIR TALK SHIT. PLAY ALONG WITH THEM, IT'S THEIR PHONE BILL NOT YOURS. DON'T BE FOOLED BY THESE FUCKERS. TELL THEM YOU WANT A JOB FIRST BEFORE PAYING ANY MONEY. THAT'S ONE WAY OF FINDING OUT WHO'S REALLY & WHOSE A FUCKER. I DON'T GET FUCKED, I FUCK (hahahaha). So the best thing for is to go as a one man band. it's my time & money i'm investing into my own shit. gimme some luck my man. i'm out to provide a good service. please email me some good advise on doing this the right way and taken serious.
thanks amillion
Nathan Jules

Posted by nathan jules on 28 Nov 07

Agency Escorts, well what can one say. As the credit squeeze and the economy get tougher I thought there must be a way of getting more money. So trawling the internet i found Agency escorts. Registered and received a ID card. I gave them dates when i would not be available and after 2 months ...surprise surprise no booking but they had lifted 2 lots of money £46.75 each time from my account. Eventually a booking came through, but only after i had pestered them (when they eventually answer their phone. Guess what it was for one of the dates when i told them i was unavailable. Another series of phone calls and they gave me another booking. "she will meet you at...and will be carrying a bottle of water". I attended but the client did not. Obviously a scam. And an expensive one at that. So my advice to all is avoid agencies who take fees beforehand.
I note that an earlier comment gives their address, The heddon st address is merely a serviced office so off to 90 wilberforce rd i shgall go today to get my money back and believe you me i will !!!!!!!

Posted by Andrew on 13 Dec 07

Hi! putting the fact that owning/running an escort agency is illegal to 1 side, what about people who own/run anagency but work as an escort for it too?
And what do you people who are part of the insdustry feel about a situation like this?

Posted by Claire on 15 Dec 07

Running is the issue...
... whether or not you work for it.
Staff tend to like having managers who have done / are doing the work too. The problems can come if they suspect you're giving yourself the best clients.

Posted by Richard on 16 Dec 07

Do agencies 'control for gain'?
There have been a couple of court cases in this area recently. In the first, the owners of the Silk and Lace agency were acquitted of 'controlling prostitution for gain' despite some impressive evidence against them.
There is no way of knowing what went on in the jury room, so we can only wonder if the jury went 'So what, where's the victim?' and then found them not guilty.
In any case, the result meant that the police and Crown Prosecution Service were probably wondering what they had to do to get a conviction...
... until the Court of Appeal made an important ruling in the other case. It confirmed that coercion is not necessary for 'control' and the test is easier to fall foul of than some people were claiming:
"It is certainly enough if a defendant instructs or directs the other person to carry out the relevant activity or do it in a particular way. There may be a variety of reasons why the other person does as instructed [..] it may be because the defendant holds out the lure of gain.."
It would have been very interesting to see what would have happened if the Court of Appeal judgement had been made before the Silk and Lace case. Instead, we will have to wait for the next set of agency owners to be charged.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 16 Dec 07

Man, I just wanna get paid- to get laid! Isn't that why all male escort wannabes aspire to join?
It's a real farce that we really believe that we would like to just do 'non-sexual' escorting... it's a ruse to cover what we really want and to make it look legit.
Lets be honest guys, what's the dream job?
cash to bash!
It's men who want the sex, and it's only men that will pay. I can nearly guarantee that even the sexual side of the game is fruitless. Porn, escorting, etc... if you want to get any cash, the only way is to take a shot in the mouth. Very straight escorting there chaps. It's not hard for a woman to get a date or the male attention she wants, no matter how busy she is, unless she is really desperate and has some serious man-repellent going on. You want to be a gent and date these kinds of ladies? I bet not. I've fallen into the same trap of glamorising the idea of escorting- I've been with plenty of older women who've recommended it... but not one of them offered to pay.
And I'm not some sceptical whingeing old sod, I'm a male stripper, and a great character too. If I can't get around into it, I seriously doubt any others of us will have much luck. Not in this country at least. I know a few lads who did make it into the game... but they take the man milk with their cornflakes too.

Posted by Christian on 22 Dec 07

A stripper writes...
I have female clients, but I've gone for a small very specific niche market. Otherwise, you're right, you need to be prepared to be sexual with other men.
Supply and demand, supply and demand.

Posted by Richard on 22 Dec 07

I have looked at alpha male escorts address and i am sure it is one of those virtual office addresses you can buy off the internet . Why doesnt there contact number correspond with there location. Mst probably working out of some room in the suburbs. Beware.

Posted by richard on 23 Dec 07

I RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING FROM THE FLY-BY-NIGHT ESCORT AGENCY KNOWN AS "NETWORK". PLEASE BEWARE OF THESE COWBOYS! DO NOT OFFER THEM ANY BUSINESS AND CERTAINLY DO NOT HAND OVER YOUR BANK DETAILS! I WAS GIVEN TWO PROVISIONAL BOOKINGS ALONG WITH AN ACTUAL BOOKING FOR 8PM ON THE 26TH APRIL 2007 WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MADE BY A WOMAN NAMED "MANDY" WHO HAD SUPPOSEDLY REQUESTED MY COMPANY FOR THREE HOURS AT THE HOLIDAY INN IN SUTTON. SUPRISE, SUPRISE THAT "MANDY" NEVER TURNED UP (BECAUSE SHE NEVER EXISTED!) AND NETWORK WERE UNCONTACTABLE BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THIS FARCE. HOWEVER, THIS DID NOT STOP THESE SHAMELESS PARASITES FROM EMAILING ME MANY MONTHS LATER ME FOR FRESH BANK DETAILS AFTER I HAD PUT A STOP TO THEM PLUNDERING MY ACCOUNT FOR A SERVICE THAT THEY NEVER ONCE SUPPLIED ME WITH. I AM IN THE PROCCESS OF REPORTING NETWORK TO TRADING STANDARDS/CONSUMER DIRECT AS I TYPE THIS MESSAGE.
Network Employment
18 Soho Square
London
W1D 3QL
escorts@networkescorts.co.uk
www.networkescorts.co.uk
Your Reference: pnrwt
Dear Darren,
This email is to inform you that due to various changes occurring within Network Employment it has been necessary for us to change our bank details. The standing order that you have already set up with us has been cancelled by us. In order to keep your service live and uninterrupted you need to complete the new standing order which is attached to this email and send it directly to your bank or alternatively hand it in to your local branch. Please do Not send it Back to Us!
Everything Else will also remain the same and we hope that you continue to be part of our service, if you have any questions regarding this change over please do not hesitate to contact us at escorts@networkescorts.co.uk and we will be delighted to answer them.
Thank you for all your help in this matter and sorry in advance for any inconvenience caused.
Your Sincerely,
Deborah Carter
Network Escorts
Download the new standing order here

Posted by Darren on 03 Jan 08

Network? Notwork!
I wonder if anyone does go 'Well, I think I really will give them a new standing order, because I really haven't had enough fake bookings yet...'
I'm horribly afraid that someone probably does.
Well done for it not being you.

Posted by Richard on 07 Jan 08

Can anyone tell me some names of NON-sexual escort agencies in London. I am very interested in doing this sort of wor as I am fun, bubbly, chatty, adaptable and good company.
Any info would be grately appreciated.
Many thanks

Posted by Emz on 22 Jan 08

Non-sexual work
The non-sexual agencies I'm aware of reckon they're in the 'promotions' business (looking fun, bubbly etc while handing out free samples or drapped over cars). Look in the phone book or online for such companies.
If it calls itself an 'escort' agency, whether or not it has a 'no sexual services are offered' disclaimer, it is almost certainly offering prostitution.

Posted by Richard on 23 Jan 08

Hello!
Nice site ;)
Bye

Posted by Anizamammacok on 31 Jan 08

Please can you tell me if it's safe to have sex once a year?
Hubby says it's perfectly healthy in a strong trusting marriage, is this right.
I'm think of straying as I have an *extremely high sex drive*.
I'm sorry to sound so stupid but i'm wondering if this is normal.
Please advise

Posted by Mrs Unhappy on 01 Feb 08

Is once a year safe?
Well, no-one's going to die as a result, but not many people would call it a sign of a 'healthy' "strong marriage".
'Normal' has many meanings. While there are marriages like this, it's certainly not common - most couples average around two or three times a week, although it varies according to age and length of relationship (most people have more sex while younger or in the first stages of a relationship).
Has he always had this low a sex drive (if so, something can often be done to increase this - ask your doctor) and are you sure he's doesn't have other sexual outlets?
(Not just an affair - although the word 'trusting' makes me wonder - solo masturbation's usually fine, but not so much when used as a way to avoid having sex with your spouse.)
It's also possible he's gay, and married you for reasons of denial / children / family pressure / something else.

Posted by Richard on 02 Feb 08

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
I'm not sure that he is gay, but the other sounds sensible.
May be I should try a different approach to our activities. Would you suggest anything to gain his interest in me again? Possibly dressing up erotically,toys, etc...
I appear to be a bit naive about it all, but I really do want to gain his interest again.
Do you think I have a very high sex drive, with what I have told you, and do I need help.
I have seriously considered a threesome to try and spice things up, but to be honest I want him all to myself.
Could you suggest anything else that would help me to sort out this problem.
Look forward to your reply
Mrs Unhappy (frustrated!!!)

Posted by Mrs Unhappy on 08 Feb 08

Hi guys,
I want to set-up an legit escort aegncy, anybody know how i go about doing this.
Any help and tips would be very helpful.
Thanks

Posted by nikki on 13 Feb 08

Is once a year safe? #2
Your problem would seem to be that he is happy not being sexual with you beyond a token level. Presumably he knows you're unhappy.
If his sex drive has always been low - and most people want more sex than this - then you're probably in a better position than if he's preference is other 'outlets' rather than you.

Posted by Richard on 13 Feb 08

Legit agency
It's rather difficult to do this legally because once you start telling people where to go - what an escort agency does - you're at risk of 'controlling prostitution for gain', an offence that carries a maximum penalty of seven years.
In most cases, chasing escort agencies is not the police's highest priority, so there are lots of them out there.
It also means your main problem will probably be having a good answer to the question 'why should I work for you?'

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 13 Feb 08

hey-ya! dudes please tell me where can I found free sex

Posted by ruspetriot on 14 Feb 08

Rebeccas nationwide escorts = total rip off. do not send them any money you will not get it back despite thier proclaimed guarantee to refund any monies if you recieve no work, i did stupidly and when i try to get an answer they go all quiet on me, I have threatened legal action but really who can be arsed to chase down 50 quid, just don't anyone else make this mistake, 99.9% of all male escort agencies are scams. be independant and even then there is no great demand don't be fooled by the lovely idea of being paid to escort ladies > if it sounds to good to be true it usual, no it always is. Think with you big head boys don't allow the balls to rule your wallets!

Posted by harry ha ha on 23 Feb 08

Have a look at prime-secretarial.co.uk and you will find alpha male escorts London address lol

Posted by richard on 27 Feb 08

Thanks for running this forum. You've saved me £49.75 that "Agent Employment" aka "Agent Escorts" want me to pay them. Not once, but every month!
I'm out of work, or soon will be, and the idea of non-sexual escorting at £300 per date had huge appeal. Twice a week, so they claim. £600 a week for 6 hours' work and I wouldn't have to shag any old crabs.
And to think I actually believed it......
Thanks again.

Posted by Muggins on 29 Feb 08

SoHo clip joint scam
Yep i've just been scammed too (see above entries). £5 for a supposed dance then a £325 bill out of the blue!!! I managed to get out with just paying £40 but they did take my name and address (stupidly I showed them my driving license). They said if I didn't pay within 15 days it would go up to £1000!!!
Surely they can't do this? and has anyone heard of them chasing up the money? threating letters? court action etc? as i'm a little bit concerned :s

Posted by Shaun on 04 Mar 08

Soho clip joint scam
In practice, it doesn't look like any following up is done - I've not heard of any happening to other victims - and certainly if it reached a court, you'd start talking of the menaces and threats etc that accompanied the 'request' for payment.
It is possible but unlikely that they may sell the 'debt' to a factor (someone who buys debts cheaply in the hope of making a profit when the debt is paid) who would start sending various nasty letters. If this happens, please post again here.
Do complain to Westminster Council etc.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 04 Mar 08

This board stopped accepting comments for about a week - sorry for the service interruption to all non-spammers (there are about a hundred attempts a day to 'comment spam' here!)

Posted by Oops on 18 Apr 08

Anyone had any experience of PlatinumSelect escorts agency as a male escort?
Let me know, many thanks..

Posted by JON on 22 Apr 08

Platinum Select
Scam, whether you're male or female, escort or client.
They're not an agency, they're an expensive ad site who will charge people before they can see your ad.
They're also one of the bunch who pretend - in order to get money from optimistic men - that there's a large market for 'straight male escorts'. There isn't: see elsewhere on here for the reality.

Posted by Richard on 22 Apr 08

Dear Richard,
i wanted to ask you a question, i am a tenant in a W1 flat and i am a student and also working part-time ( always only me in the flat ). I see only people who i know ( my regulars ) and i dont advertise anywhere.( i used to work for an agency where i made my regulars. ). they know me by my real name and we all have a very friendly relationship. However, there is a porter in the house, who finishes his duty at 3pm so i always try to arrange meetings in my place after that time, but he did see a few blokes ( about 4 of them on different days) when he was on duty, but always the same ones, never any new faces.
I am always very discreet and neighbours would never have a chance to find out, cos i dont work every day and i dont work in the nights and i am not being noisy. Despite all this, i am worried he will call police or my landlord but many people tell me its highly unlikely, although i have a suspicion he gathers... Do u think i am safe or should be more vigilant?
thank you for your reply. F.

Posted by Fran on 23 Apr 08

Oh Mr Porter?
I am not a fan of working from home (or indeed not using a working name) but this looks like it's working for you.
I'd say it was staggeringly unlikely anyone would care, even in the very unlikely event of him telling anyone.
From what you've said, you're not behaving illegally, and if you're a good tenant, the landlord is unlikely to care as getting rid of you means having to find someone new. Which sort of student would you rather have in your flat: one who sees a few men a week (how would anyone know money was involved?) or one who has drunken parties regularly?
If it were me, I'd ask him one day about where would be a good place to place an ad about my counselling / music tutition / finding more research subjects / 'something else that's plausible' skills.
Your clients are probably more nervous about being sussed out...

Posted by Richard on 23 Apr 08

It definitely works for me, Rich, cos once or twice he asked them where they were heading to - so they said they were coming to see ...my real name..and thats it- it looks better than if they said i am going to see Kelly- when clearly he knows its not my real name and i am not English either...thank you for your advice!

Posted by Fran on 23 Apr 08

Recruiting Escorts and the law?
I'm envolved in the running of an escort agency, and would like to make sure that we stay on the right side of the "We provide Escorts time" line, What things should we avoid stating \ asking when someone wants to be an escort?
Thanks in advance for your guideance.
Tim

Posted by Tim on 25 May 08

hi everyone i was going to join candy escorts they wanted 319 pounds.said they had a booking for me just on me saying how good looking i am .then she said it was up to my client to book my taxie. that when i thought it bullshit cause ealier she said my fee was for that and insurances.I also had to tell them what area was up to 50miles from whers i live. my mate find this web site and told me after reading everyone mistake or close to it. am staying right away from escorts agency on internet/localpaper. thank god i never gave them my money but i was close to it. As anyone had problem with this company please get back in touch. they keep ringing to see if am going ahead i just dont pick up or i put the phone down.they got my address never gave them a photo. do u think they come to my house or send threat letter? ive got they bank details was going to report them to the bank or the police any comments thanks millie,

Posted by millie on 30 May 08

Running an agency
This became more exciting with the Court of Appeal case at the end of last year which confirmed my view of what 'control' entailed, i.e. it didn't have to involve any coertion - in this case managing appointments, designing the website etc were enough.
Unfortunately for people running agencies, this is what you do. I can see a way around this law, but we're moving into consultancy territory there.
As far as the other bit, avoiding 'Causing or inciting prostitution for gain', all you need to do is establish that they're already prostitutes. No saying 'no experience required', for example.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 30 May 08

Candy
As you can imagine, there are lots of people who'd like to see the scammers behind Candy in the UK. Because of that, it's very unlikely anyone will turn up or even waste postage - why bother, when you have new victims ringing you every day?
When looking up what to do with someone who had a habit of stopping cheques paid to escorts, it turned out that one of the problems with the English banking system is that banks seem to owe all of their duty of care to the account holder, none to the people they're ripping off, either by writing rubber cheques or accepting payments obtained by fraud.
So you can tell the bank, but - unless the people concerned are doing something very naughty like money laundering - nothing will happen.
With the police, the problems are that 1) they're in Spain and 2) what they promise in their terms and conditions is so rubbish - show a profile to other victims - that they quite possibly live up (down) to it.
It's also quite possible they don't (I get the impression that victims can only see their own profile) but #1 still applies... which is why they're based in Spain.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 30 May 08

Does anyone know about charming escorts agency based in London? I would like some feed back on their service both for members and clients. Thanks in advance.

Posted by george on 06 Jun 08

Not so Charming
For victims AKA 'members', see the comment to the safety tip #2 post - CharmingEscorts.co.uk is yet another Network Escorts clone. The basic scam is that you have to pay them £49.50 every month as soon as they say you have a 'booking'.
This will happen very soon after 'joining', but the booking will next month. It will be no good, but they've got at least one lot of money off you.
For clients? I doubt very much they've ever had one.

Posted by Richard on 06 Jun 08

I use to visit SW5 or streetwise as i remember it 10 years ago they were all amazing and comfort did amazeing food!!! i also remember Hedi are you still there you came to visit me in rochester when i was on ''holiday'' it ment alot to me then

Posted by Symon on 10 Jun 08

i recently started visiting a lady in central london. she operates a versatile service which includes sex with another girl - so we have at times all 3 of us been involved in group sex. The thing is these ladies are full-on. by that i mean deep throat without condom, french kissing but no intercourse without (so that's something). i also get full oral to completion (without). My worry is that these ladies could be operating in a hotbed of disease. Although they do advertise on an escort site, is there a requirement for them to be regularly health checked ?

Posted by punter on 17 Jun 08

I am struggling with the concept of 'massage for sex' and 'massage that is not for sex'.
If you control an agency where the girls only give 'tantric massage' and nothing else can this be considered prostitution?
If the guy orgasms during a tantric massage is that still 'sex'? Someone can orgasm during a swedish massage.
Is a naked girl giving you a massage considered 'sex'?
What are the clear boundaries between a traditional massage and what the law would consider a 'sexual act' because it does not seem very clear to me?

Posted by john on 18 Jun 08

Symon
I joined SW5 in 2002, a few months before the adoption of the SW5 name, and Heidi had left by that point. Comfort was still there, and yes, I'm sure lots of people remember the food.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 18 Jun 08

Sexual health
No, there's no requirement to be checked and most people would say that having workers - but not clients - given compulsory checks as happens in some countries is rank hypocrisy.
But in general, sex workers have very good sexual health (having an STI is bad for business) and are regulars at their local clinic.
Giving or receiving oral sex with or without a condom ('OWO' = without) is something everyone has to make up their own mind about. If you absolutely do not want to catch anything, avoid OWO. If you do OWO, be aware you might catch something, and have a check up every few months / if you notice symptoms.
Personally, I'm happy to do it, but I am aware that there are various things you can catch (primarily things like gonorrhoea, syphilis, chlamydia etc, but these are all curable). Other workers choose to have a 'no OWO' policy.
Ultimately, it's down to you... and them.

Posted by Richard on 18 Jun 08

Massage and 'sex'
The definition of 'sexual' used in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 is in two parts (section 78). An activity is sexual if a reasonable person would consider that..
(a) whatever its circumstances or any person's purpose in relation to it, it is because of its nature sexual, or
(b) because of its nature it may be sexual and because of its circumstances or the purpose of any person in relation to it, it is sexual.
The first bit means it is difficult to say that, yes, you put your penis in someone but it wasn't 'sexual' - a reasonable person is very likely to say that doing so was always 'sexual'.
The second bit is the one that's relevant here. If someone knows someone's going to get off on it, it's sexual, but if that's not the intention, it's not.
From what I can see, in the vast majority of cases, at least one of the parties involved knows that 'tantric' massages are designed to give sexual pleasure, regardless of whether or not orgasm results. So I'd say they're sexual.
On the other hand, while some people may have an orgasm as the result of a 'Swedish'-style muscle rubbing massage, it's rarely the intention that it's sexual. Sensual and relaxing, yes... sexual, no.
Having a massage of whatever style given by someone naked is more likely to push a jury to the conclusion that it's sexual - why else would they strip?
Even before this Act, it was well established that prostitution didn't necessarily involve sexual intercourse - the case concerned a brothel where only hand-jobs were apparently on offer.

Posted by Richard on 18 Jun 08

Has anyone heard of goldenapple.co.uk? I'm tempted to join.

Posted by eee-zee on 20 Jun 08

Golden Apple
Looks like an ordinary escort agency to me. They're concentrating on getting clients for staff, not finding victims.
Note that the 'Employment' link is described as 'Female Escorts Employment Form' on the bottom of the page - my guess is that they have all the men they need (they are all claiming to be boringly heterosexual... and the vast majority of the market for male escorts is from male clients).
If I were female and wanted to work for an agency - neither of which is true :) - I'd have a lot to chose from, so I'd look around the 'punting' message boards to see what sort of reputation the agency had from the clients' perspective and ask around to see if anyone I knew had worked for them.
There's a leaflet on the SW5 site about working for an agency and saafe.info is another good place to ask.

Posted by Richard on 22 Jun 08

Hi.
Is it legal in UK to work as a close protection operative (bodyguard) for a prostitute?
Driving her to client and back ,waiting for her and if something goes wrong protecting her as a client from phisical harm..etc.

Posted by Mark on 30 Jun 08

Bodyguarding
The main risk is being seen as 'controlling' the work, so it'd help to ensure that, for example, you got paid by her rather than it being part of the service provided by an agency.
Obviously any intervention in the case of trouble would need to stay within the 'reasonable force' provisions of the law.
Someone needs to know that you're about to intervene before it happens - if it went wrong, you don't want both of you held hostage with no-one knowing where you are, for example.
Quite a lot of men think this would be good to do, but the reality is usually very boring.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 30 Jun 08

Does anybody know if Beautiful Adults is a legitimate company?.

Posted by Sarah on 03 Jul 08

Beautiful Adults
In common with every 'agency' that wants any money whatsoever from you before you have hard cash in your hand from a client, it's a scam.
There are more details in comments to other posts here.

Posted by Richard on 03 Jul 08

Thankyou Richard, it is much appreciated.

Posted by Sarah on 03 Jul 08

Hi richard, i recently joined candy escourts and yes i did pay the money, im so upset as ive only just found this site and cant believe that they will jus take peoples money, i was really looking forward to having some fun and earning some money, im only 23 and live at home. is there any escourt agencies that you know are legitimate?!! im really interested in trying out this kind of work, i live close to bristol?!!
look forward to hearing from you
jan x

Posted by jan on 17 Jul 08

I have worked for a so called escort agency. They are all based on Costa del Sol, and they are all run by dodgy types. I worked for one called Sexy Escorts, run by a couple of fat guys from the UK. I can garanty you that there is no work for guys, and the one time I saw that a girl was going to be offered a job with a client in England, there was no security and no checking of to see if the man was safe.. I dont know if the girl ever went on that 'booking' but if she did, it was dangerus.

Posted by Sue on 17 Jul 08

Hi,
I would be very interested to find out what makes the perfect agency from everybody's point of view.
And since there are many people here who, I imagine, have both the experience and, presumably, an opinion on this subject, I just wondered if anyone would care to share their views with me.
From an escort's point of view, what makes a perfect escort agency for you? How do they behave and treat you, not in general terms, but specifically. How do they look after you and protect you? What do they do that is so different from the just so so agencies, or even the bad ones?
And as a client, why would you chose one agency over another? How does the agency you use meet (or fail to meet) your needs? How would you like to be treated (asuming you are not being treated as you would like), and if you are being treated well, what is it that you particularly like?
Please let me know what you think.

Posted by Mr Wiggly on 26 Jul 08

i need a real escort agency can u suggest one i noticed you never answer that particular question

Posted by mike on 05 Sep 08

Real escort agency
If you're looking to escort women, see the lines just above where you entered your name to post the question!
If you're looking to escort men, most men work independently. See the gay media for examples of both sorts of ads.

Posted by SW5 on 06 Sep 08

just discovered this site, amazing!!! am an independent escort based in north wales and have never worked for an agency. All my work is either recommendation or from a website.

Posted by lauren on 09 Sep 08

saafe.info
.. is the other site to have a look at. Lots of good stuff, including a message board.

Posted by Richard on 09 Sep 08

I've just read your excellent article on rip off male escort agencies, and whilst all of it was absolutely spot on, I did notice something slightly not 100% accurate:
You claim that Touch Networks/ MB Trading Ltd "earnt so little, they haven't had to file company accounts" when they used to be involved in clothing.
According to the Company House website EVERY Ltd liability company has to file accounts whether they make a £100 million loss or a £100 million profit, and even if they are not trading. They only have exemption from having their accounts AUDITED as they are classed as "a small limited liability partnership". To qualify for that, they must fulfill at least two of the following:
Annual turnover must be £5.6 million or less.
The balance sheet total must be £2.8 million or less.
The average number of employees must be 50 or fewer.
So not as bad as it sounds. Still quite clearly a bunch of rip off merchants though.
P.S: sorry if I sounded pedantic.

Posted by Greg on 25 Sep 08

* beautiful adults*
hello, i stupidly paid out 440 pounds to beautiful adults for registration fee for a freind and i, they had promised us work for that same day and the next day. as soon as i pay the money i hear nothin from them anymore......they have since not got me any booking...please how do i do about getting my money back am really desperate please does anyone have an idea....thank you.

Posted by derin on 29 Sep 08

Regarding "bodyguard" for a working prostitute whils't she is working, you would be living on the emoral earnings of a "prostitute" which is ofcourse illegal.

Posted by pete nash on 21 Oct 08

Bodyguard - legal
Sigh. Go and read the legal section. The law often, but wrongly, referred to as 'living on immoral earnings' was repealed over four years ago.
Now the offence is 'controlling prostitution for gain' and if you don't control the work - for example, you follow their instructions - then you can gain from it.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 21 Oct 08

Touch Networks
Oops, yes, 'TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL' refers to them not having to submit audited accounts, rather than any accounts, doesn't it?

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 21 Oct 08

hello,
anyone know anything about "sexy escorts" agency?
i've been told there's a £290 registration fee which they say "covers their backs" which i can sort of understand but ....
your thoughts?

Posted by jimmy on 21 Oct 08

Touch Networks
Yes Ian, I believe that's correct:)

Posted by Greg Lynn on 01 Nov 08

Hi!Anyone know anything abouth Paragon professional male escort agency?Please let me know.

Posted by george on 05 Nov 08

We are going to open fantasy rooms to advertise what we can make in way of dungeons, fantasy rooms and bondage equipment, we will have demonstrations on how the equipment works, please tell me what licences we need if any?

Posted by anthony bower on 08 Nov 08

Paragon
Scam. They now charge you £70 as soon as they've invented a 'booking' for you.

Posted by Richard on 15 Nov 08

Fantasy rooms licences
I don't know of any special requirements, so 'the same as if you were demonstrating what you could make in the way of ordinary furniture'.
You'll need to tell HM C&R that you're starting the business, and you'll need some public liability insurance if people can get to see them in person, for example.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 15 Nov 08

Just wondering, is it illegal in itself to telephone a massage parlour and enquire about the cost of services, ect, but to never actually visit it?

Posted by alex on 08 Dec 08

Phoning brothels
It's currently legal to visit them, including paying for sexual services therein.
(This may change: under the proposed legislation, anyone working in a brothel is almost inevitably going to count as 'controlled', even if they are working there entirely voluntarily, and it will be illegal to pay for sexual services with them. Yes, that is silly.)
So the only problem with ringing one is if you do it enough times to count as harrassment. While they will be used to people who ring up but never turn up, that doesn't mean that they welcome such calls: don't expect a detailed discussion of what's on offer.
If you are intending to visit somewhere and are just wondering where to go, be aware that some places will tell you what you want to hear on the phone in the hope that when you arrive, you'll take what's on offer anyway.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 09 Dec 08

Anyone ever heard of Mandate escorts and are they genuine. Would appreciate hearing from any one who has had dealings with them.

Posted by tony on 14 Jan 09

Yep - me too.
Elegance4her.com
Scam
Scam
Scam
At ,my age I should have known better! And I'm normally so sceptical abouyt things. A nit of fun and some extra money I thought. Elegance4her.com probably thought the same!!
Don't do it.
This is how it goes:
Advert in small ads in Friday ad.
Called them - all sounded very professional (better than the office where I work) and they explained that you have to register - with the carrit that they had a client who they offered a discount to for new guys.
So like an idiot I paid - Cash for christs sake!!! into a NatWest bank account.
Then called and they confirmed receipt.
Then they called to ask if they could relase my mobile no to Client (with a 1500hrs cut-off time).
Client apparently "cancelled".
The agency even had the cheek to sound offended when I said that I had rumbled them.
lesson learnt. Perhaps I'm just lucky that the money wasted wasn't life or death, but still my money that they now have.

Posted by Mug mug mug on 30 Jan 09

can any one tell me if all agencies and directories are registered businesses?

Posted by Chris on 06 Mar 09

Global Social Entertainment? Claim to be an agency looking to sign up people (not just men) for work in movies and/or escort work. Yet another set of scammers?

Posted by Steve B on 06 Mar 09

Hi, could anyone tell me if accepting (for money) advertisements on my website for massage palours is legal? Presumably these ads would need to be non-explicit? Obviously I have no intension of getting on the wrong side of the law so any help would be much appreciated.

Posted by BP on 09 Mar 09

Hi BP,
Accepting money for adevertisements for a massage parlours advertising even non explicit which relates to a premises which offers sexual services could mean that you may if it was proved that services beyond a massage were being offered or provided be money laundering. A crime for which the maximum sentence is 14 years.

Posted by Trawler on 13 Mar 09

Accepting money for ads
Quite legal - you're not controlling the work, therefore you can gain from it.
It's certainly an offence to own and/or run a brothel, but I don't know where the idea that accepting ads for it could be 'money laundering' comes from. Perhaps Trawler would like to provide some references?

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 20 Mar 09

Dear Ian,
May I start off by stating that I have enjoyed the dialogue on this site for a long time now and thus far have found the comments attributed to Ian and others as highly accurate. I feel that on this occassion I have to disagree with your Post dated 20 Mar 09.
With further reference to this matter concerning BP’s question relating to the advertising of services for money.
I note with great interest your bold assertion that it would be legal. Firstly that because someone does not control then they can gain from it. Your assertion. Be careful about that because my understanding is that the act states that it is "gain for oneself or another" If a child was involved that being a person under 18 years then no element of gain would be neccessary. I also note that you ask for references to support my assertion that it could be illegal and therefore fall within the meaning of money laundered and captured by definition of the Proceeds of Crimes Act.
I conceed that to date I am not aware of any such prosecutions for this. Presumably because the Police will seek out the advertisers as witnesses for the Crown rather than Prosecuting them and that it would probably for those reasons not be in the public interest.
THE OFFENCES

There are now five basic money-laundering offences:

i. assisting another to retain the benefit of crime;
ii. acquiring, possession and use of criminal proceeds;
iii. concealing or transferring proceeds to avoid prosecution or a confiscation order (also called Own Funds money laundering).
iv. failure to disclose knowledge or suspicion of money laundering;
v. tipping off.

Brown (1996) states: UK money laundering legislation can be said to have three themes that run through it:
i. The desire to encourage and in some cases compel the reporting of suspicions, especially in relation to drug trafficking.
This is reflected not only in the substantive offences of failing to report suspicion, but also in the provision of exceptions relating to acquisition and the like of tainted property where a disclosure has been made.

ii. The prohibition of any dealing with suspect funds, at least until a disclosure has been made and the consent of the law enforcement authorities obtained to proceed. This follows from the objective of denying the money launderer access to the market.

iii. The prohibition of doing anything that might alert the launderer to the existence of an investigation or prejudice such an investigation. This is necessary not only to protect the investigation but also to protect the person or institution that has made the disclosure against the possibility of the subject of the disclosure discovering that a disclosure has been made (whether or not s/he is a money launderer).
I must add that this has not been tested and I mention this only as I feel that it would be better for BP to take independent legal advice. Just as you have prefaced.
High regards

Posted by Trawler on 21 Mar 09

Accepting money for ads 2
Hmm, under s53 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, it's the control that's illegal if you are gaining or if you know someone else is.
It's not the gain that's illegal (even if you know they're controlled) and that's the situation here. There's clearly no control via publishing ads, so you can gain from it.
As far as the money laundering is concerned, if we were talking about, for example, the position of an accountant being asked to provide professional services, then, yes, they will need to take advice about the implications.
But I'm still extremely dubious this would fall within it. Would you give the same advice to, for example, the electricity supplier to the premises, or, perhaps more ironically, the laundry that washes the sheets?

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 21 Mar 09

Accepting Money for Ads
I agree with your interpretation in your response titled Accepting money for ads 2 paragraphs one to three.
I would exclude the electricity company and the laundry that washes the sheets as being not within the spirit of the ACT. Certainly not within the Public interest. Those services are also excluded (reading between the lines) within the stated case of R-V-Massey 2007. For a ruling on the definition of "Control" and also services sighted by Lord Rivlin in another case and documented in Blackstone’s. In that case it refers to the assisting in the management of premises used as a brothel but excludes the cleaner for example. So in effect I would take the same view in your example in paragraph three.
Would lesser acts draw the same criminality? I doubt it for reasons of taking a sensible view.
This still leaves us with an unanswered and as yet untested act which may and in my opinion and does constitute money Laundering. The offence aimed at here is not "Control" but Money Laundering. Remember the question by BP "Is Accepting money for adverts on my website legal?" Advertising these services commands a high income and takes the criminality a step higher. Hence my reasons for caution in entering into advertising. I believe a more jaundiced view would be taken if a prosecution were to succeed and the hard earned proceeds taken from the advertiser.

For the reasons given above I suggest and I believe that It would fall within the criminality of Money Laundering despite as yet being untested. Hand on heart would you still be happy to tell BP that it was legal?

Posted by Trawler on 21 Mar 09

Accepting money for ads 3
Massey is the case that confirmed I was right in relation to what constitutes control ("'control' includes but is not limited to one who forces another to carry out the relevant activity").
It follows that people working in a brothel are almost inevitably going to be 'controlled' (someone has to set a rota, for example, and brothels typically have fixed price lists) even if they have made an entirely voluntary and rational choice to work there.
Even if that were not the case, owning or running (but not working in or, currently, visiting) a brothel is of itself illegal.
If a massage parlour is openly advertising and has not been closed down, what is a potential publisher of its ads to think? That either it is not, in fact, a brothel or that the police know about it and do not care. (The latter situation is seen in Manchester, for example, where several massage palours publish explicit price lists and there is no pretence that they are not brothels.)
In either case, why think there is a risk to publishing the ads?
Particularly in relation to money laundering offences, where this is not part of the "regulated sector"! The 2007 regulations, for example, apply to "(a) credit institutions; (b) financial institutions; (c) auditors, insolvency practitioners, external accountants and tax advisers; (d) independent legal professionals; (e) trust or company service providers; (f) estate agents; (g) high value dealers; (h) casinos", all very different from publishers of small ads.
As you may know, there is a case specifically on the legality of prostitution ads, when in 1961, the House of Lords invented the common law offence of 'conspiracy to corrupt public morals'. A second, politically-motivated, prosecution happened in 1971 with conviction of the International Times for publishing gay personal ads.
However, there have not been any subsequent cases, and the Lords also said that this was a matter to be left to the jury. I think it is clear that a jury today is highly unlikely to convict for either. Given the continued existence of parts of the gay media publishing highly explicit ads, including prostitution ones, why on earth should anyone else expect to be the first such case in well over thirty years?
So, a slightly longer answer to the legality question would say 'it is theoretically possible that you could get into trouble, but anyone unlucky enough to do so has probably already been hit by lightning. Several times.'
The legal advisers to QSoft Consulting, to pick just one prominent example, don't seem to have a problem with having prostitution ads and charging a substantial premium for them.
So to answer it a slightly different way, if I had advertising on a site, I'd be happy to accept such ads.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 22 Mar 09

Thank you for your detailed and very persuasive comments in Accepting money for ads 3
Once again I agree with your interpretations of "Control".
I also agree with your also very persuasive comments relating to small ads and where they appear. Also why should they be prosecuted?
The test remains relating to Money Laundering. My understanding is that you do not have to be part of the regulated sector to commit the offence. I also accept what you say about it being theoreticaly possible that you could get into trouble. It is that stance I take and it would appear that you agree with me on that and that is why caution is wise. I would love to know the context of the advice given to QSoft consulting.
I only mention this out of interest.

Posted by Trawler on 22 Mar 09

Accepting money for ads 4
OK, having waded through the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (and some of the numerous amendments to it), I would say - without accepting any liability for what is NOT legal advice - that it comes down to s329.
Part 2c says it's not an offence to acquire criminal property (such as money made illegally) "for adequate consideration", i.e. if you sell someone something for its real value, that's ok.
Unless the ads were ludicrously wrongly priced, it should be simple to say that they was adequate consideration for the price charged.
Indeed, the Crown Prosecution Service's notes on the offence say that this caters "for any injustice which might otherwise arise: for example, in the case of tradesmen who are paid for ordinary consumable goods and services in money that comes from crime."
That would seem to definitively cover it, except that part 3c says "the provision by a person of goods or services which he knows or suspects may help another to carry out criminal conduct is not consideration."
Do ads help another carry out running a brothel? More than, for example, doing its laundry? It's the sort of question that ends up being decided by the House of Lords or higher and I can't see anyone bothering to have the prosecution. The absence of any that we can find, despite some very high profile publications, suggests I'm right.
I'd love to see it too.

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 22 Mar 09

Re accepting money for ads 4
Firstly I think you will find that some of the advertisers charge a higher price for what they place in the adult section.
Secondly It would be difficult to see how a brothel or other such enterprise offering or providing sexual services and hidden behind the facade of Massage or Escort work, could operate without advertising. This would fit in with 3C.
I do not see how the ordinary tradesmen would be in the same category. It could be considered that whilst they may be considered essential to running premises they are not essential to the running of the premises as a brothel.
In any event it makes an interesting legal argument which probably would end up in the House of Lords, if anyone took it on. Regards

Posted by trawler on 23 Mar 09

is this peter?

Posted by stir_hit on 31 Mar 09

I jointed Guysforladies in Sept 08. I paid £300 and haven't had a booking. Everytime I call, my contact says shes trying her best. Everytime theirs a booking!!! it never happens. Everytime I complain, surprise surprise a booking is setup, it never happens. Am out £300 now and only joined to get money.

Posted by ripped off on 01 Apr 09

Me and my friend applied for 2 diffrent companys guys and girls and model couples.We decided to see the police 1st and rang the nationwide trading standards.they advised us not to pay any fees,we told the two companys this and we havent heard from them since.Really glad we saved our money and wasnt conned big relief but could of lost out on bout 400 pound Rit and Matt

Posted by Richard Harwood on 16 Apr 09

Hi i just have a quick enquiry, is there any possible way to operate an escort agency also taking profits from it without crossing the law?

Posted by Ronin on 22 Apr 09

i was just about to pay nerly 300 pound to companion fever until it said on google it was a fake

Posted by anna on 25 Apr 09

Hi All,
I'm a female (so I know this section is not really for me) who has recently been scammed by Select Marketing trading as Blu-1 (via their website www.blu-1.com) and plan to take action directly with them. I plan to target their property landlords and also their hosting providers so need as much information as possible from other escorts / adult performers who have paid and lost money to this scam.
If those of you who have also been scammed could provide the following: (1) your working name, which doesn't necessarily need to be your real name (2) the amount of money you have paid (3) the bank details to which you paid these monies, if you did pay (4) any website addresses which you were provided or the address through which you found the company (5) any contact details / names you have for people working with this organization (6) the date you paid these monies and (7) your contact details - an email address would be fine.
I intend to enact action from Wednesday 29th - so if you could email me with these details at: aalana@hotmail.co.uk before then I will include you in the action without disclosing your real name - unless you provided it.
Whilst I am almost certain that you will not receive your monies back (and that I will not receive the £251 that I paid) taking action now will enable us to prevent others from suffering at the hands of these confidence tricksters and teach them that such tactics are tantamount to theft and therefore illegal.
All emails received in the strictest of confidence.
Yours,
Aalana (aalana@hotmail.co.uk)

Posted by Aalana on 25 Apr 09

Operating an escort agency legally
I think there is a way, but we're getting into consultancy territory here.
Can you leave an email address here?

Posted by Ian - XW5 on 01 May 09

here is what i have learnt about escorts agengies:
1. don't pay any money first. get a booking before paying. tell them you will pay after you have gone for the job.
2. ask to visit their physical offices where they operating from.
IF THE ANSWER IS NO TO BOTH REQUESTS, THN IT'S A SCAM. A CON. Move on, that agency is not worth it.

Posted by JJ on 06 May 09

NAME & SHAME CON ESCORT AGENCIES.
1. SEXY ESCORTS

Posted by JJ on 06 May 09

does anyone know of a company called graceful partners.com. has anyone got any info on them, cheers.

Posted by brown on 19 May 09

aalana, good luck glad someones making a stand has to be done.hopefully the small claims court and CAB will help. its about time people stopped paying these agencies any money. i know its hard times, set up your own get a few frends and a web site. these agencies are making a load of money for notting. get there web sites closed. put ads beside theirs. it time to stand up.

Posted by gorden brown on 19 May 09

Operating an escort agency legally
I think there is a way, but we're getting into consultancy territory here.
Can you leave an email address here?
Heres my email address, im open to consultancy, speak to you soon.

Posted by Ronin on 19 May 09

Operating an escort agency legally
I think there is a way, but we're getting into consultancy territory here.
Can you leave an email address here?
Heres my email address, im open to consultancy, speak to you soon.
beangels@live.com

Posted by Ronin on 19 May 09

Anyone know real escort agency,if yes let me know.Please

Posted by kazse on 24 May 09

real escort ageny is a cover for a scam dont pay.

Posted by see on 27 May 09

SEXY ESCORTS IS A SCAM. DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY HAVE TO SAY. SO LETS NAME AND SHAME THEM ALL.

Posted by JJJJJJJ on 02 Jun 09

Hello what the law on neighbours complaining. Its a private house detached with good fencing around and private drive, No one can see in we are a bunch of escorts renting a place togther. we have not made any noise and keep quiet etc, but one neighbour is having meeting with other resisdents about our goings on. Not sure if they know about us yet but have definatly twigged on. Can any one please advise.

Posted by bridget on 03 Jun 09

bridget. its only a matter of times before the police come calling, if only to follow up the neigbours claimes. its best if you move are talk to the ring leaders and come to a undrestanding. everyones got their price, money or other wise. cheaper in the long run.

Posted by scott on 05 Jun 09

Bridget, move on and find somewhere else. Keep moving, even if the neighbours are not talking. As soon as the police and authorities knock on your door, you'll have to say 'yes sir' 'no sir', and you'll be their puppet. If you don't comply, then expect to get into deep water. You'll be marked for any excuse to pop you in the media and tell the public what a great job the police and authorities are doing. Keep the public happy and they'll keep paying their taxes and voting.

Posted by Ann on 17 Jun 09

Anyone know anything about meninthecity.co.uk? The site seems more upscale than others but looks can be deceiving.

Posted by curious on 28 Jun 09

You need help? so help me to help you, every body complains WHICH DOSNT MAKE ANY DIRRERENCE TO THESE COMPANIES. nobody doing anything even just to email me to complete my legall process AGAINST THEM.You have around 90% chances to get refunded if you got scammed by dodgy agency AND I AM SUCCESSFULL AND KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING, I have been many times when I was new to this business and understand how does it feel.I dealt with few such agencies. I NEED MORE EMAILS, COMPLAINTS AND EVIDENCES FOR LEGALL PROCESS. I AM ALREADY IN PROCESS TO DEAL WITH THESE NAMED AGENCIES. THEY ARE ACTIVE BECAUSE NOBODY IS TAKING ANY ACTION. I AM THE ONE WHO IS TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST THEM BUT NEED YOUR EMAILS
Any body have been scammed and want to get refunded or just want at least to stop them especialy by:
glam-international.co.uk, male recruitment, escort@male-escort-services.co.uk or any other dodgy escort agency so please email me what exactly happened, I will contact you. Just email me please and spend bit of your timeeMAIL ME ON dudedawod@yahoo.co.uk THE MORE COMPLAINTS AND EMAILS I RECIEVE THE MORE CHANCES ALL OF YOU GET REFUNDED AND SHUT THEM DOWN. PLEASE DO IT AND DONT WASTE TIME. dudedawod@yahoo.co.uk

Posted by Dave on 29 Jun 09

Escort agency jobs FAKE FORUM website scam www.escortagencyjobs.com To gain your trust and steal your personal details. Sound confusing? Read on.
The organisation behind the "FAKE FORUM escort agency jobs" scam, pose as a genuine forum. By posing as a genuine forum, you and other users will share similar experiences, at the same time the people running the forum will collect your personal details, telephone numbers, ip, email and home address. You will have given them your details because you assumed they were helping you get your money back. They have no intention of getting your money back; they are only interested in collecting your personal details, including your credit card details.
Because users trust the 'fake forum escort agency jobs', users will ask advice and one question is "can you direct me to a genuine agency?" this fake forum will phone or email you and recommend various agencies to join, but beware, this fake forum owns the agencies you are about to pay, but because you trust the fake forum, you will pay and when they provide no work you will simply assume no one wanted to hire you, and you probably won't complain. Throughout the fake forum you will notice a few mentions towards certain agencies to join, which not surprisingly the fake forum owns.
WHY?
escort agency jobs fake forum already has your trust and when their escort agency jobs fake forum tells you that a particular company is genuine then the chances of you visiting and joining their recommend site are very high, once you lose your money they will refer you to their terms and conditions and you'll put it down to your attitude and you won't complain.
Why 'escort agency jobs is a fake forum'
The whois has a fake telephone number
They use a fake po box
They carefully recommend their own agencies
They edit and moderate all message posted to their liking, which means you only see what they want you to see.
The information is scatty and no solid evidence is provided
They make various claims towards fake agencies yet their own agencies commit the same fraud.
Their website is carefully filled with Google keywords, including their web address related to people looking for escort work, at the same time they like to direct you to their own agencies and mention that their competitors are scams.
You will soon see advertising from recommended agencies on their website; those adverts will be their own companies.
WATCH THIS SPACE! They may reply to this posting because they wear 'Black Hats' which is why they rank low in Google. A black hat can be a thief pretending to be a good man.

Posted by Rob on 02 Jul 09

Beware! FAKE FORUM website scam www.escortagencyjobs.com

Posted by rob on 02 Jul 09

So, what do you think?
(To save you asking, no-one knows of any genuine agency looking for straight men
who only want to escort women. Sorry. There are free places to advertise,
but one such site has over four thousand optimistic men already...)

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